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Windows CE 5.0 Live Chat (July 27, 2005)

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Posted: August 9, 2005

Please note: Portions of this transcript have been edited for clarity

Introduction

mikefos_msft (Moderator):
Welcome to today’s Windows CE chat

Start of Chat

John Spaith [MS] (Expert):
Q: I'm trying to figure out how to get the Remote Configuration (even the sample) working in my CE 5.0 PB image. I have included the Remote Configuration Framework in the build, but the MSDN topic is not explanatory.
A: Are you're referring to the /RemoteAdmin Web Page tools configuration tool or to something else? What problems are you having? When you included it in the build, did you do a complete rebuild of your platform? After adding a new component you need a fresh build for it to take.

Travis Hobrla [MS] (Expert):
Q: There is a very common problem for mobile web applications: If I build a web application for a company to use away from the office, but I cannot restrict other devices to view the site even they have the user credentials. Need help :(
A: While I'm not familiar with many of the Windows Mobile APIs personally, are you saying there's no way for your device to securely communicate with an external web site?

mikefos_msft (Moderator):
Q: How do I add a search function on VB.NET 2005 that searches after spyware on your computer? and it had been very nice that I could use a file that all the spyware were listed
A: This question isn't really related to Windows CE and I'm afraid that we won't be able to provide a qualified answer for you on this. My apologies.

John Spaith [MS] (Expert):
Q: I did a rebuild - many times a day. but the framework doesn't seem to incluse the ISAPI
A: Hmm... could you please go to your %_FLATRELEASEDIR% and look at servers.bib and see if remoteadmin.dll is listed in it? And could you open ceconfig.h and see if you have SERVERS_MODULES_REMOTEADMIN?

Travis Hobrla [MS] (Expert):
Q: No, I want to identify each device from an asp.net mobile application, without using any application set up, only via web. So, I can restrict devices which I don’t know.
A: So you have an application on the device and you want to go to a website to determine whether that device is authenticated or not?

MLL asked the experts:
Q: I am working with an advantech som 2354 GX (x86) based board, PB5, CE5 and VS2003. This will be USB related. Specifically, the USB drive not showing up on the device even though the support drivers are loaded during insert as-seen remote process

dramsier:
A: One possible option, try other drives. There are known issues with the MS USB stack which sometimes results in some drives not being recognized.

Sue Loh [MS] (Expert):
Q: how to add a search function on vb.net 2005 that searches after spyware on your computer? and it had been very nice that i could use a file that all the spyware were listed
A: Is this a Windows CE question? I apologize but those of us on this chat only know about Windows CE. You'd have to look elsewhere for help with other products.

HawkEye asked the experts:
Q: Is there any document available from which I may find out what can be modified by setting different registry keys?

ptobey_MVP:
A: HawkEye: There's no single document showing *all* registry entries, but the Platform Builder documentation has pages for most of the major components, showing what their entries are.

Sue Loh [MS] (Expert):
Q: Is anyone from the GWES group here today?
A: Not really... Do you think your question is something someone else could answer?

Travis Hobrla [MS] (Expert):
Q: I included the components into the image. I use a armv4i. When I try to authenticate, I got a error back.
A: Can you post the error message? I think there may be docs to help you with this issue, but I need a little more info for the search.

John Spaith [MS] (Expert):
Q: Is there any document available from which I may find out what can be modified by setting different registry keys?
A: There is not a single document that has this set for the whole OS. However individual technology areas (TCP/STK, Web Server, Serial Driver, etc...) should have a subtopic explaining what they support.

John Spaith [MS] (Expert):
Q: from .bib: remoteadmin.dll $(_FLATRELEASEDIR)\remoteadmin.dll NK SH
A: Then it should be in your image? Are you just running 'dir' on it from a cmd prompt on the CE device itself? IN this case it won't show up because it's a hidden file - use 'attrib' instead to get the whole list. What problem in particular are you having with RemoteAdmin?

Travis Hobrla [MS] (Expert):
Q: :) , No. I have a web application. And I sell Windows CE operated handhelds to my clients for using that web application for free. I want that web application viewable only from the devices that i sell.
A: So, again, I'm not familiar with the APIs, but are there any APIs on the device side that allow to send/receive information from a web service? That's all you need for authentication, yes?

mariobia_MSFT (Expert):
Q: Does CE 5.0 support Excel or are there any future plans?
A: We have an Excel File Viewer included in Windows CE 5.0 and also have Excel Mobile in our Windows Mobile 5 platform which is based in CE 5.0.

dramsier:
Q: Would someone please tell me what "CE" stands for?

dramsier:
A: Doesn't officially mean anything, although there have been a number of suggestions

ptobey_MVP:
A: CE stands for "CE". It has no meaning; it's just a pair of letters.

Travis Hobrla [MS] (Expert):
Q: Can I use APIs on the device from an asp.net application as a client? Is it permittable?
A: I'm not sure exactly what APIs you would need to use - I'm just saying I imagine that somewhere out there there is some API that can send/receive information to/from a web page, yes? And that's all you need, yes?

Sue Loh [MS] (Expert):
Q: In device drivers, I find if XXX_Open() if does SetLastError(n) and returns 0, the caller will always receive 55 from GetLastError(). Is this supposed to happen?
A: Strange, as far as I can see, if XXX_Open returns 0, the device manager will only overwrite LastError if GetLastError() == 0. 55 is ERROR_DEV_NOT_EXIST which should only be set if device manager doesn't even call your XXX_Open.

mikefos_msft (Moderator):
Q: Hi, I got in looking for a C# chart (I see the topic here is Windows CE). Do you no where is a chat about C#? specific about sockets Tcp in C#
A: You can always check out https://msdn.microsoft.com/chats to see what's coming up on the agenda.

Sue Loh [MS] (Expert):
Q: I have a custom board. I use PB 5.0 with eVC++ 4.0. I am trying to switch to VS 2003. I've watched the ehowto that explain how to connect the VS 2003. I got the Smart Device Authentication Utility.
A: I'm afraid the question corresponding with this message was lost -- if you are still waiting for an answer, can you re-send it all together?

sandeep
asked the experts:
Q: Hello does any one know why do we get a link error LNK2019 while trying link to an external library , it works well with the emulator ...but when running with device gives the above error ...

ptobey_MVP:
A: sandeep: Does the library *exist* for the target device? It can't be linking the same library for the emulator and for the real device; there has to be a separate one for the real device.

John Spaith [MS] (Expert):
Q: Can I use APIs on the device from an asp.net application as a client? Is it permittable?
A: Let me try to understand your problem. You are writing an app in C# using the web service API wrappers (the SOAP stuff). You want your app to be authenticated against the server before the server lets it call any API. Is that correct? If not please provide more information about your basic setup - tools used, etc... Thanks.

Travis Hobrla [MS] (Expert):
Q: No, i want to identify each device from an asp.net mobile application, without using any application set up, only via web. So, i can restrict devices which i dont know.
A: 1. Getting Device ID information from the device
2. Sending info from the web page to the device
3. Sending info from the device to the web page

mariobia_MSFT (Expert):
Q: Second try : Why is impossible to install a custom x86 based SDK created using Platform Builder 5.0 ? The same error trying to install the STANDARD_SDK.msi coming with the CDROM in the \eVC\SDK500 directory.
A: What version of WIndows Scripting Host do you have? You may want to check that and then install the latest (5.6) that is available at https://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=c717d943-7e4b-4622-86eb-95a22b832caa&DisplayLang=en

Travis Hobrla [MS] (Expert):
Q: No, i want to identify each device from an asp.net mobile application, without using any application set up, only via web. So, i can restrict devices which i dont know.
A: Which of these 3 are you having trouble with?

John Spaith [MS] (Expert):
Q: I tried https://192.168.66.66/remoteadmin to invoke the remote admin; I also tried the sample application on XP which is supposed to invoke the remote admin.
A: Debugging ideas: First, make sure the web server is working by just visiting https://192.168.66.66/. Is it possible you have a firewall blocking the port? Check out the web server log in \windows\www\current-httpd.log (or something like that) and see if web server has internal errors. Let me know if you find anything interesting out and we'll go from there.

Sue Loh [MS] (Expert):
Q: I am trying to use CopyFile to copy from a compact flash to a usb stick. It returns that it is not supported. What else shoul I do?
A: Are you able to see the CF and USB stick in other ways, eg. through explorer or remote file explorer? Are you sure they are both mounted? "Not supported" is a strange error, I'd check that the file systems are both working well before debugging into the CopyFile specifically.

mikefos_msft (Moderator):
Q: Hello, I know there is no Microsoft provided managed API available for Pocket Outlook menu extensions. Do you know of any third party managed API for this purpose?
A: Thanks for the question. I'm not aware of any third party products that offer this, although Peter foot has a PocketOutlook library....https://www.inthehand.com/PocketOutlook.aspx

John Spaith [MS] (Expert):
Q: Hello does any one know why do we get a link error LNK2019 while trying link to an external library , it works well with the emulator ...but when running with device gives the above error ...
A: Are you sure that your device and your emulator are based on the same underlying OS - remember that CE is componentized? Is it possible that your emulator has some component that your app requires that your device image doesn't. If this doesn't help, what symbol is it complaining about?

John Spaith [MS] (Expert):
Q: The web server works fine, and so do WebAdmin and SysAdmin. It is just the RemoteAdmin that doesn't work.
A: What errors does it give you in the web page? Does the \windows\www\current-httpd.log have any relevant log entries related to /remoteAdmin?

Travis Hobrla [MS] (Expert):
Q: I have problem with #1 i if I use an mobile application I can get the device id. But i cant do it with mobile web application - asp.net.
A: What are you using to establish the connection on the device side? Can't you get the Device ID there?

mikefos_msft (Moderator):
Q: I could invoke one of your 2 free support incidents on Platform Builder and call this in. HOW ?
A: Are you in the United States? (I'm looking up the right support site for you)

mariobia_MSFT (Expert):
Q: How would I update my Phone Pocket PC 2003 SE with the Windows 5.0 Mobile OS? My OEM is not authorized by Microsoft to provide the OS and Microsoft refers me back to the OEM. Also, the mobile MSDN site only lists Pocket PC devices with 2003 SE not 5.0
A: Only the OEM can provide the update to Windows Mobile 5.0. Any other form would be breaking the licensing. And even technically the device image contains device drivers, boot loader and so on that are developed by the OEM and specific to that given device, so we cannot supplied an image for it.

Armen
asked the experts: How would I update my Phone Pocket PC 2003 SE with the Windows 5.0 Mobile OS? My OEM is not authorized by Microsoft to provide the OS and Microsoft refers me back to the OEM. Also, the mobile MSDN site only lists Pocket PC devices with 2003 SE not 5.0

ptobey_MVP:
Armen: You can't. There's too much hardware-specific information required to build an OS for a specific device for you to build something that will work on a given device that you don't have the details on. Only the OEM can give you an update...

Armen:
ptobey_MVP: Thank you but since Windows Mobile 5.0 is already released why the OEM (Siemens) claim not to be authorized by Microsoft to distribute the new OS?

ptobey_MVP:
Armen: At a guess, because the device has to be tested and verified to be compatible with the spec for WM5 before they can ship it. The OS is not a single brick that you either have or don't have.

ptobey_MVP:
It's a pile of pages from a book that have to all be present and in the right order before the device is called "WM5".

Armen:
ptobey_MVP: Thank you for your reply. How would I get the list of devices that ARE WM 5.0 ready as I cannot find them in the mobile MSDN sites.

ptobey_MVP:
Armen: are you asking about the list of WM5 devices? I don't think there is a list as there are no released devices that I know of...

Armen:
ptobey_MVP: Ok great thank you. So I can only develop my apps and test them on the WM 5.0 Emulator, correct?

ptobey_MVP:
Armen: I'm not a PPC or Smartphone guy, so I'm not the last word. However, since WM5 was just *introduced* as a platform a short time ago, I'm not surprised that there aren't a pile of devices out there.

Travis Hobrla [MS] (Expert):
Q: I don’t want to set up an application which will be removed when the battery is empty.
A: How are you getting this application into ROM? Do you have any other persistent storage available on the device?

Sue Loh [MS] (Expert):
Q: QUESTION: I am working with an advantech som 2354 GX (x86) based board, PB5, CE5 and VS2003. This will be USB related. Specifically, the USB drive not showing up on the device even though the support drivers are loaded during insert as-seen remote process
A: I don't know USB stuff specifically but maybe I can help you debug it. Have you gotten any other information from the debug output? I'd suggest that you try making a debug build and turning on all the debug zones for the drivers that are being loaded.

Sue Loh [MS] (Expert):
Q: Sue Loh: Have you read my answer to your questions or I have to click in ask the experts so you can read.
A: Our interface is kind of clunky. To answer you we have to go to a screen where ONLY the "ask the experts" questions show up. So if you don't ask the experts, a lot of times we don't see your message

mikefos_msft (Moderator):
Q: I could invoke one of your 2 free support incidents on Platform Builder and call this in. HOW ?
A: The site to start with is: https://support.microsoft.com/oas/default.aspx?&c1=509&gprid=3100&. Dean is correct that if the problem is a bug, you won't be charged for it.

Travis Hobrla [MS] (Expert):
Q: The device is shipped with the conection software on the ROM. You tlak as there is not a way to identify the device via web application, right?
A: I don't believe the device sends a unique ID as a default with every communication, but that doesn't mean there's no way to identify it. Are we talking about a device that has already shipped to end users?

John Spaith [MS] (Expert):
Q: I get a 404 error from the web server. I'll try it again and look at the log
A: I have a theory. The web server supports the concept of multiple "websites", for security purposes. The idea is that if someone connects from the public website then they should never ever have access to the /RemoteADmin. This is only available to people connecting via an internal website. This only applies if you're working on a gateway of some sort. Could you look at your Web server registry key and see if you have a HKLM\COMM\HTTPD\Websites registry key?

Travis Hobrla [MS] (Expert):
Q: No, they are at the manufacturer now.
A: Meaning you can still change what's on the ROM, or reflash it?

mikefos_msft (Moderator):
Q:https://support.microsoft.com/oas/default.aspx?& ;c1= 509&gprid=3100& : An unknown application error occurred. Please try again in a few minutes.
A: huh....that's odd. Works for me. The way I got there is via https://support.microsoft.com, clicked the "select a product....." link under Assisted Support, clicked "More windows..." and picked CE 5.0.

Sue Loh [MS] (Expert):
Q: Sue Loh: The program hangs om CopyFile, then when I take the usb stick out, it returns me error 50 (not supported)
A: Okay, so the problem is a hang during CopyFile. Can you use the kernel debugger at all, are you using Platform Builder or eVC?

Liang asked the experts:
Q: Does CE 5.0 have jpeg library build-in? I saw jpeg.dll in the release directory, but can I use it directly? Is there any API I can invoke to open a jpeg image file? (sorry, couldn't find it in msdn library)

Dan McCarty:
A: Liang: CE 5 has built-in image decoders f/ GIF/JPG/PNG

Liang:
Q: To Dan McCarty: yes, I saw that. But I didn't find any useful API I can use, for example to load/open a jpeg file

Dan McCarty:
A: Liang: how are you trying to open a jpg? Inside IE? Using the CF? With native code?

Liang:
Q: To Dan McCarty: I try to write an application in PB. Basically it's native code in CF. I saw IE is using dcdjpeg.dll, I want to know how they use it. Also, I check the link you provided before, I couldn't find any example, or any API I can use directly.

Dan McCarty:
A: Liang: look at the Imaging API f/ CE (https://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/wcemultimedia5/html/wce51conimplementingimagedecoderobject.asp)

John Spaith [MS] (Expert):
Q: No, they are at the manufacturer now.
A: Again none of us are web services export so please bare with us. Basically it sounds like you have a web page running on a web server, written in ASP.Net. Your complaint is that from that page directly you can't get at the deviceID. Correct? One way you could work around this is to write JScript that runs on the CE Device itself that calls an ActiveX Object (that you'd write yourself). The ACtiveX object is just C code, so that can call any C API - including getting the device ID. Just be careful with the security here since any random web page, not just the one you trust, could be able to get the deviceID. This is a big security issue if this is a general purpose device that can access any web page in the world, not just ones you trust.

RMarcelo
asked the experts: I have a custom board. I use PB 5.0 with eVC++ 4.0. I am trying to switch to VS 2003. I've watched the ehowto that explain how to connect the VS 2003. I got the Smart Device Authentication Utility. I included the components into the image. I use a armv4i. When I try to authenticate, I got an error back.

ptobey_MVP:
RMarcelo, If you have the Smart Device Authentication utility and the device version on the other end, getting connected is pretty easy. I'm sure we've posted the steps to microsoft.public.dotnet.framework.compactframework before. Basically, run the device side piece and press the Start button. Run the VS.NET 2003 SDAuth program and enter the IP shown on the device screen. Press the Connect button. In a few seconds, the connection should be established. Close the PC-side program and the device program will close, too. In the Options in VS.NET 2003, choose Device Options and set the IP to the fixed IP of the device you want to connect to. When you try to deploy now, it should work.

RMarcelo:
PTOBEY_mvp. I did that. Then i return an error... I looked inside the device and it created some files, but these files have zero bytes

ptobey_MVP:
RMarcelo: Hmmm. Well, there have been some utilities posted previously for debugging this connection (in, again, microsoft.public.dotnet.framework.compactframework). Initially, the only thing I can think of is that you're missing some of the security bits that the SDAuth stuff needs.

MLL:
ptobey_MVP that's what I was about to get to in private chat with him about it. Sounds like he just needs to get the sdauth in place, run it, get the ip, pop that into vs23003 and bingo

RMarcelo:
ptobey_mvp: I will look at the microsoft.public.dotnet.framework.compactframework.

mat
asked the experts: In device drivers, I find if XXX_Open() if does SetLastError(n) and returns 0, the caller will always receive 55 from GetLastError(). Is this supposed to happen?

RMarcelo:
mll: I did that.

MLL:
RM: when you hit connect, did it close the SDauth on your device or did it throw an error msg

RMarcelo:
mll throw a error msg

MLL:
RM: Does the IP address reported via SDAuth actually have to real IP of the device or something other

RMarcelo:
mll: I have USB working. You have what I want working. Let's exchange

RMarcelo:
MLL: no, it has the IP assigned to my device

MLL:
Is the msg reported by the IDE related to 'conman'

MLL:
RM: Look in your windows folder on the device. Do you see conmanclient in there

RMarcelo:
no... this is not copied.

MLL:
bingo

RMarcelo:
I read in some place about that... so, I found where the conmanclient were and I copied myself... and started myself

MLL:
RM: Do you have a harddrive or other persistent storage on the device for which you can keep a copy of files to be copied into windows folder on boot

RMarcelo:
MLL: Yes

MLL:
RM: you're close, but you need to do something else as well I found by experimenting

RMarcelo:
I have to create the security files.

MLL:
RM: After copying the conman and support files into there, ryn it then select TCP_ACCEPT, default port and connect

RMarcelo:
MLL: but i don't know how to do that

RMarcelo:
mll: yes I did

MLL:
RM: Is your device headless

RMarcelo:
no.

MLL:
RM: k so you ran it, selected tcp_accept, 5656 and hit connect?

RMarcelo:
mll: I can test, but I would have to reboot, since I am using the only usb mouse that I have here.

MLL:
RM: Not quite sure I understand the necessity to reboot since it's just USB, unless your device won't dynamically detect and setup controller when you plug it up

Travis Hobrla [MS] (Expert):
Q: :), thats very expensive process when the device amount is less than 1000
A: So who developed the communications application?

GlennD_MSFT (Expert):
Q: Legal stuff: I'm sure a lot of you got a DHL'd letter yesterday like me about MS vs. Alacritech and the "TCP Offload" settlement. Does anyone know if TCP Offload technology is a factor for WinCE? (I wouldn't think so, but...)
A: We do not support TCP offload in Windows CE.

Travis Hobrla [MS] (Expert):
Q: :), That’s very expensive process when the device amount is less than 1000
A: On the device side?

Sue Loh [MS] (Expert):
Q: Sue Loh: The program hangs on CopyFile, then when I take the usb stick out, it returns me error 50 (not supported)
A: What I can tell you is that CopyFile is a very simple function. You could pretty much implement it yourself and get the exact same thing: Open file 1, open file 2, read from file 1, write to file 2, etc. until you're done. You can try doing this yourself and see if you can pinpoint the hang.

mikefos_msft (Moderator):
Q: I have a huge problem, and I'm sure you get a lot of these: I must have used every pop up scan ever created to get rid of my pop ups but they still show. I use my virus scan to see if what's on my computer is a virus and I get nothing. What can I do?!?!
A: Hmmm, this doesn't sound like a Windows CE question (the topic of today's chat). Might I suggest that the Windows ExpertZone might be a good place to start for tracking this down? https://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/default.mspx

John Spaith [MS] (Expert):
Q: HKLM\COMM\HTTPD\Websites registry does not sound familiar. I'm using HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\COMM\HTTPD\VROOTS\/RemoteAdmin
A: So the Websites virtual key is not present at all on your device? It may have got sucked in automatically without you consciously setting it. It will for a gateway device, at least. Even if you setup HKLM\COMM\HTTPD\VROOTS/RemoteADmin perfectly, if a ...\Websites\VROOTS\ key "overrides" the default website then the web server will totally ignore the reg key you wanted it to use.

mikefos_msft (Moderator):
Q: Ptobey: Best I can tell, you have a problem that only a very-specific guy at MS will be able to answer. You could invoke one of your 2 free support incidents on Platform Builder and call this in.- I can't call to USA, and there is not email for incidents !
A: For support options outside the US, please see: https://support.microsoft.com/common/international.aspx

Sue Loh [MS] (Expert):
Q: Sue Loh: eVC++ 4.0
A: I think you would probably have to try implementing your own version of CopyFile and seeing where it's failing. If you can read & write to both file systems then there's nothing about CopyFile() itself that should really have any failure cases.

Bernard Hymmen [MS] (Expert):
Q: Does CE 5.0 have jpeg library build-in? I saw jpeg.dll in the release directory, but can I use it directly? Is there any API I can invoke to open a jpeg image file? (sorry, couldn't find it in msdn library)
A: You can use the Imaging API to work with a number of differnetn compressed image formats, including JPEG. Here is a link to the documentation on MSDN: https://msdn2.microsoft.com/library/ms932606.aspx

John Spaith [MS] (Expert):
Q: Okay, the VROOTS works fine for WebAdmin and SysAdmin. Where would the \websites be?
A: It would be in HKLM\COMM\HTTPD\WebSites. However since SysAdmin is working I'm afraid I've led us down a wrong path about the website Stuff - I doubt this is the problem. Sorry - this is most common cause of problems like this. Could you post the snippets of the web server log that have /remoteAdmin in them - that'll tell us where exactly everything is going wrong.

mikefos_msft (Moderator):
Q: PTobey: For support options outside the US, please see: https://support.microsoft.com/common/international.aspx - You are so funny https://support.microsoft.com/select/?target=assistance there is no support for embedded platforms (are you joking ?)
A: That's an interesting situation. I'd recommend calling the developer support number anyway. There should be support as I understand and can't imagine why CE would be excluded from this list.

mikefos_msft (Moderator):
Q: Like the last time I joined these chats, one hour has passed without useful answers, I suggest you 'experts' to use a modern instrument called NewsGroups to support your customers
A: I apologize that this has not been a fruitful experience for you. Please understand that due to the nature of the specific questions we get in chats, sometimes there's only handful of folks in the organization who may know that area deeply. It's not feasible to pull in 100 experts from different areas. I appreciate your comments on our presence in the newsgroups and will pass that back to the community lead.

John Spaith [MS] (Expert):
Q: John, I'll have to email you later. My system is not booting this morning and I will have to do some troubleshooting. bcasne@millerwelds.com
A: Sorry I wasn't able to help you out on the chat. Could you please post the questions to the newsgroup microsoft.public.windowsce.platbuilder? This way other customers can jump in if they've hit the same problem, and people in the future that have the problem can benefit from our discussion. I check 1-2 times a day, I promise. And since there's going to be some delay, if it's not too hard for you to setup a DEBUG version of the OS (or at least copy in debug web server DLL into your retail releasedir and run makeimg again) then you can turn on all web server debugzones, post them to the group, and that'll let me know exactly what's happening.

Bernard Hymmen [MS] (Expert):
Q: Like the last time I joined these chats, one hour has passed without useful answers, I suggest you 'experts' to use a modern instrument called NewsGroups to support your customers
A: There are a number of newsgroups available for mobile and embedded platforms and development on MSDN. You can get to them from the following URL: https://msdn.microsoft.com/mobility/community/newsgroups/default.aspx

mikefos_msft (Moderator):
Thank you for joining us today for our chat with the Windows CE team. It's time for us to go now, and once again, I do apologize that we were unable to address all questions. If you have comments or concerns about these chats, please feel free to email me at mikefos@microsoft.com as we want these to be valuable for you.

We do hope to see you again for a future chat.

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