Windows XP Embedded with Service Pack 2 (February 10, 2005)

Posted: February 24, 2005

Please note: Portions of this transcript have been edited for clarity

Introduction

mikefos_msft (Moderator):
Welcome to today’s Windows XP Embedded with Service Pack 2 chat. We will begin this chat in about 5 minutes. Thank you for joining us.

mikefos_msft (Moderator):
Welcome to today’s chat. Our chat today about Windows XP Embedded with Service Pack 2!
We are pleased to welcome our Experts for today’s chat. I will have them introduce themselves now.

mikehall_ms (Moderator):
Hi, I'm Mike Hall, a Technical Product Manager in the Mobile and Embedded Devices Group - check out my blog at https://blogs.msdn.com/mikehall

nmarlow_MSFT (Expert):
My name is Neil Marlowe and I am a Program Manager in the Windows Embedded Group. My main area of focus are the Embedded Enabling Features (EEFS)

Jon_MSFT (Expert):
Howdy! I'm Jon Fincher, a Program Manager on the XP Embedded Team

JKremer_MSFT (Expert):
I'm Jay Kremer, I'm a Program Manager in Windows Embedded

lyallen_MSFT (Expert):
Lynda Allen - Software Test Engineer for Component Integration

dansimp_MSFT (Expert):
Dan Simpson - XP Embedded Documentation

khalidsa_MSFT (Expert):
I'm Khalid Sabri, Escalation Engineer on the XP embedded support group at Microsoft.

markcham_msft (Expert):
Hi this is Mark Chamberlain, Escalation Engineer in Support for Windows XP Embedded

harshs_MSFT (Expert):
Hi, I'm Harsh Shah, Software Test Engineer for Windows Componentization

mikefos_msft (Moderator):
Let’s begin the chat. We welcome you to begin submitting your questions for our Experts. If you have attended previous chats, you may be accustomed to prefacing your question with a Q:, there is no need to do that any longer. Our new chat system will automatically preface your question with a Q:.

mikefos_msft (Moderator):
Thanks for your questions...our experts are currently working on them.

Start of Chat

JKremer_MSFT (Expert):
Q: When will SNMP v3 be available for XPe? Will it be installable like a hot fix or security update? Or, will it be only for development systems?
A: I'm not sure what implementation of SNMP technology you're referring to. What's the scenario you're looking to enable?

mikehall_ms (Moderator):
Q: What are the major differences between Embedded XP and Windows CE and what are the differentiators that would make me choose one over the other for a project?
A: Windows CE runs on multiple processor cores, x86, MIPS, ARM, SH4 - Windows CE scales from about 200KB and is a hard-real-time operating system - Windows CE does not run desktop applications or drivers, does support Win32, MFC, ATL, and the .NET Compact Framework which is designed as a 'client side' framework. Windows XP Embedded is a componentized version of Windows XP SP2, this runs on x86 processors and PC architecture hardware - there is full desktop compat for drivers and applications. XP Embedded is not natively real-time, but can be made real-time through 3rd party extensions - the minimum build size is approx 40MB.

Jon_MSFT (Expert):
Q: How do you prevent components from being added during dep checks? An example is IPv6. Add simple networking to a project and you get IPv6. If I delete it, it'll be added back in the next dependency check. If I disable it, it gets added again too.
A: The only way to do this is to turn off automatic dependency checking in TD via Tools, Options, Dependency Check, and uncheck the Auto-resolve dependencies check box. You will have to resolve the dependencies manually when they appear in the Task pane at the bottom to resolve the ones you want to keep.

nmarlow_MSFT (Expert):
Q: Basically, I am interested on what level of customization is going to be done for huge components in LHE? E.g., we all know that Explorer App or Shell32 libraries are dramatically huge in XP/XPe.
A: There is a effort to further componentize LH. In theory, we should be able to drive to a smaller footprint due to fewer dependencies. However, I do not have any stats at this time and this is something we will continue to drive forward

Jon_MSFT (Expert):
Q: My company is still waiting to hear an announcement from Microsoft or its XP Embedded support partners about how to apply SP2 to thousands of XP Embedded SP1 devices in the field. What should our expectations be?
A: We are working on a solution to this problem, which will leverage our existing XPE SP2 release. This new solution is turning out to be harder to implement than we originally anticipated, so we don't currently have anything more concrete we can share right now.

khalidsa_MSFT (Expert):
Q: When I turn off localization for the English language, I still get all the localized versions (like Jamaican English, mon). Bug?
A: Hello McGurk, can you give more info on this? Do you mean you remove English Language support from the image and you want the image to be localized in another language?

nmarlow_MSFT (Expert):
Q: Sometimes it may be wise to leverage some functionality out of the Shell32 but we don't want to include the whole piece. So I am interested in whether LHE will be more "embedded" in the sense of componentization.
A: As stated earlier, LH will be more componentized and components should have fewer dependencies.

Jon_MSFT (Expert):
Q: Are there any plans of XPe PG for changing XPe Toolkit (e.g., fixing some bugs) before LHE? I know this is old question but maybe plans changed.
A: At this time, no. We will continue to generate security updates and major feature requests, but at this time, there are no plans to update the tools prior to Longhorn Embedded.

JKremer_MSFT (Expert):
Q: What are approx dates (years) for LHE?
A: We have no specific dates for LH Embedded at this time, other than sometime after LH for the client desktop is released in 2006.

khalidsa_MSFT (Expert):
Are you talking about the "Support all system locales for English" checkbox? Unchecking this will not include other English locales in your image. If it was checked and you did dep check, then the components are already pulled into in your image. Unchecking the box won't really remove them, you need to delete them manually

Jon_MSFT (Expert):
Q: When the ability to apply XPE SP2 to XPE SP1 devices is provided, will there be batch mode capability for configuring ICF?
A: The way the update will work should take of this issue. You will need to generate a fully configured and tested XPE SP2 image on which to base the upgrade package - you can configure Windows Firewall in that new image to work as you wish, and those settings should be carried over to the upgraded image.

mikefos_msft (Moderator):
Q: My system restore does not work at any restore point
A: Is this a Windows XP Embedded system?

nmarlow_MSFT (Expert):
Q: From legal and technical point of view, will LHE (or maybe any later XPE SP) be more generous to changing Microsoft system component's brand elements (logos, version info, etc.)?
A: I am not aware of any plans to provide new branding options in XP Embedded but there are plans to provide more flexibility in branding LH embedded

Jon_MSFT (Expert):
Q: chatted with Ben Armstrong, VPC program manager, about easing XPE development. Big issue with me--how annoying it is to get an XPE image on a VPC. My suggestion was to enable mounting VPC disks on a dev machine like a hard drive (continued!)
A: We haven't worked directly with the VPC team on integration of their technology with XPE. We do use VPC internally for demos, and I agree - a way to mount VHD's on the dev system would make life much easier. There aren't any plans for this that I know of, however, you can raise this as a feature request at https://msdn.microsoft.com/embedded/community/community/feedback/feedxp/default.aspx.

dansimp_MSFT (Expert):
Q: I destroyed my SQL 2k setup by installing sp3a. I'm reinstalling now. Will I have to do anything special other than adding back the databases to get PB/CD/CDBM working again? Is there a KB on the steps I need to take? I don't want to reinstall PB.
A: No, the tools will not need to be reinstalled if you are just reinstalling your DB.

JKremer_MSFT (Expert):
Q: Is there any plans for Windows Embedded Servers?
A: There won't be anything like this in the XP timeframe, but we've had some customer requests for this and are considering some options going forward. If you have something specific in mind, I encourage you to send your ideas in to the feedback link Jon referenced: https://msdn.microsoft.com/embedded/community/community/feedback/feedxp/default.aspx

nmarlow_MSFT (Expert):
Q: How about adding a feature to allow removable devices like microdrives to boot?
A: This is on the plan for LH and there are no plans for this in XP. However, there are 3rd party solutions that may facilitate booting from a Disk-on-key and alike.

nmarlow_MSFT (Expert):
Q: EWF API QFE - when it is going to be out?
A: Which EWF QFE are you referring to? Is there something specific you are looking for?

JKremer_MSFT (Expert):
Q: EWFAPI.lib was broken in SP2 release. Please read google archive for more details on this. I remember Dan [MS] mentioned there will be a QFE for that.
A: Yes, we have this done and sent to release management. Expect it to be posted by the middle of next week.

mikefos_msft (Moderator):
We’ve got about 10 minutes left in today’s Windows XP Embedded with SP2 chat. Your questions, comments and feedback are welcome.

Jon_MSFT (Expert):
Q: I see lots of newsgroup postings about trouble upgrading the XPE Toolkit to SP2 and converting XPE image *.slx files from SP1 to SP2. Is there a best, safe practice recommendation? Should I plan to build up a new machine for SP2?
A: I haven't been on the newsgroup for a while, so I don't know any specific problems that have been reported. If you're having a specific problem, we can address that - otherwise, the documentation that comes with XPE SP2 is the official method for upgrading the database and your configurations.

lyallen_MSFT (Expert):
Q: Is there a way to tune NTFS? On our XPE-protected CF drive, we sometimes see disk full when there are lots of updates, like when we pre-compile web pages. Something is using the free space on the drive then releasing it. Journaling in the background?
A: We suggest that when using compact flash you use FAT, as NTFS generates a lot of extra noise reading and writing. When you say "protected" do you mean that you are using EWF to protect your compact flash partition?

harshs_MSFT (Expert):
Q: I see lots of newsgroup postings about trouble upgrading the XPE Toolkit to SP2 and converting XPE image *.slx files from SP1 to SP2. Is there a best, safe practice recommendation? Should I plan to build up a new machine for SP2?
A: Only thing that is recommended is that you backup your existing SP1 database before you upgrade it to SP2. The instructions are available with SP2 installation on how to backup your database. If you are using XPe SP2 RTM, you shouldn't have problems in upgrading your configurations from SP1 to SP2. I am interested in knowing what kind of problems occur in upgrading, if you remember any of them.

nmarlow_MSFT (Expert):
Q: And there is an IDE driver that masks the one bit to make microdrives bootable. www.xpefilex.com But, an official solution is preferred.
A: There are no plans to address this request for XP Embedded. However, there are some 3rd party solutions besides changing the bit that solve this on USB 2.0 DOKs. I am not sure if this solution would work on microdrives.

Jon_MSFT (Expert):
Q: Wading through all the different components is pretty daunting sometimes. Are there any good resources on components? Like good books (not XPE for Dummies stuff) or websites (other than www.xpefiles.com)?
A: The best book I know of for XPE is called "Windows XP Embedded Advanced" by Sean Liming. Also, in XPE SP2, all components now have help associated with them - right-click the component and select Component Help for in depth info on the component and what it does.

nwhite_MS (Expert):
Q: Wading through all the different components is pretty daunting sometimes. Are there any good resources on components? Like good books (not XPE for Dummies stuff) or websites (other than www.xpefiles.com)?
A: There are a number of Web sites on XPe development listed in the MSDN Embedded Dev Center Community section: https://msdn.microsoft.com/embedded/community/community/thirdptycomm/default.aspx. Sean Liming is a Windows Embedded MVP and has published a wealth of material on the topic, so check out his site and books.

lyallen_MSFT (Expert):
Q: How does Windows XPE enhanced write filter handle pagefiling? I have never heard an official answer, only speculation.
A: Because the EWF partition protects from writes it is suggested that , if you need a pagefile, it is located on another, non-protected partition.

Jon_MSFT (Expert):
Q: I also suggest backing up SP1 and planning to switch between SP2 and SP1. I have a XPe database switcher batch file. I can post it to the newsgroup if anyone is interested.
A: We actually recommend this step, and provide instructions for doing it manually as well.

harshs_MSFT (Expert):
Q: When upgrading to SP2, remember that the settings may not be preserved. I lost weeks of time trying to figure out why cloning wasn't working. The cloning component settings reverted to defaults.
A: If you upgraded your database from SP1 to SP2 RTM - you should not lose your settings when upgrading the configuration. We had problems with our SP2 Beta and RC versions where upgrading the configuration did not preserve the component settings. If you installed SP2 RTM directly over SP2 Beta or RC, you will also lose settings. To avoid this, you should backup your database to clean SP1 before upgrading it to SP2 RTM.

mikefos_msft (Moderator):
So we're just wrapping up our last questions. I thank you for your questions and for being here today!

JKremer_MSFT (Expert):
Q: Regarding the question about removable to fixed bit modification. What is the level of interaction between XPe team and other XPP driver teams? There is one nicely named registry entry for disk.sys and classpnp.sys drivers called "HackMask" ->
A: I'm not familiar with that registry entry :) We generally are able to find in house driver developers when we need them

mikefos_msft (Moderator):
Thank you for joining us today for our Windows XP Embedded with Service Pack 2! chat.
We welcome any feedback about this chat. Please forward comments, suggestions or any other feedback to edevfdbk@microsoft.com
We hope to see you again for another chat in the future!

mikefos_msft (Moderator):
Our experts will try to remain online to assist, but many have other meetings to attend. For further questions, you can post to the newsgroup microsoft.public.windowsxp.embedded.

nmarlow_MSFT (Expert):
Q: How does Windows XPE enhanced write filter handle pagefiling? I have never heard an official answer, only speculation.
A: It is important to note that EWF will cache all pagefile writes rendering the pagefile pointless and you will just be consuming more RAM. EWF protects a volume so if the pagefile is not on a protected volume writes to the pagefile bypass EWF

nmarlow_MSFT (Expert):
Q: I have heard however that even if you set the pagefile size to 0 it can eat up ram. Doesn't this in effect do the same thing if you have an EWF ram overlay? I mean either the pagefile is writing to ewf, or if you disable it, it eats up ram anyway?
A: Disable the pagefile (Advanced Configuration and Power Interface setting) and consider the following settings too
- Disable Last Access Time Stamp
- Disable Disk Defragmentation
- Disable System Restore

nmarlow_MSFT (Expert):
Q: lyallen, can you explain then why EWF RAM usage is not growing with lots of page faults while pagefile is on protected partition?
A: Because EWF is a sector based write filter and the OS writes to the same sector there should be no increase in the RAM consumption because the sector, referenced in RAM, is constantly being updated.

mikefos_msft (Moderator):
Q: Seems like some reg-values do not work in XPe SP2, like the "Headless" value in the I8042prt parameter. Means it is hard to connect a keyboard afterwards to a device...
A: We don't have a good response for you on this one. If you could post to the newsgroup, we'd be appreciative.

mikefos_msft (Moderator):

Q: JKremer: HackMask is there in DDK disk sources and also in XPP drivers. So you can ask nicely someone who is in charge to add removable to fix option before he leave out to the lunch ;)
A: We don't have a good response for you on this one either. If you could post to the newsgroup, we'd be appreciative. Sorry for any inconvenience.

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