Windows CE 6.0 (April 25, 2007)

Chat Topic: Windows CE 6.0
Date: Wednesday, April 25, 2007

Please note: Portions of this transcript have been edited for clarity

Sue Loh [MS] (Moderator):
Welcome to today’s public chat. Our chat today covers the topic of Windows Embedded CE 6.0! I would also like to welcome the students of the Imagine Cup embedded competition to today’s chat.

Sue Loh [MS] (Moderator):
We are pleased to welcome our Experts for today’s chat. I will have them introduce themselves now.

*Introductions

mikehall_ms (Moderator):
Hi, I'm Mike Hall, a Technical Product Manager on the Embedded Devices Group (https://blogs.msdn.com/mikehall)

David K [MS] (Expert):
Hello everyone, I'm David Kelley, Product Unit Manager of the Windows Embedded CE team.

GLanger_MSFT (Expert):
Hi, I'm Glen Langer, a program manager for BSPs on the Windows Embedded CE team.

Ryan Ward [MSFT] (Expert):
Hi, I'm Ryan Ward. I'm a test developer on the Platform Builder IDE team.

Neil [MS] (Expert):
Hi - I'm Neil Coles, a developer on the Device Management Security team in Windows Mobile.

Travis Hobrla [MS] (Expert):
Hello, I'm Travis Hobrla, a developer on the Embedded CE BSP Team.

John Spaith [MS] (Expert):
Hi, I'm John Spaith and am a dev in networking team.

Alsun [MS] (Expert):
Hi, I'm Albert Sun. I'm a Program Manager on the Multimedia team.

Sue Loh [MS] (Moderator):
Hi, I’m Sue Loh, a developer in the Windows Devices Core team at Microsoft. I work on the remote tools team, and have previous experience with the kernel and file system. I’m also moderating today’s chat. I hope we can answer some questions for you today!

Lindsay_MSFT (Expert):
Hi, this is Lindsay Kane, I am an academic product manager in the Windows Embedded team and am a co-captain for the Embedded Development Invitational.

MikeCal [msft] (Expert):
Hi, I'm Mike Calligaro and I'm a developer who works with OEMs on system and driver sorts of issues.

russellk_MSFT (Expert):
Hi, I'm Russ Keldorph. I work on the native C++ compilers and runtime libraries for Windows Devices.

Don Weber [MS] (Expert):
Hi, I'm Don Weber, a Program Manager on teh Embedded CE BSP team.

jsirois_MSFT (Expert):
Hi, I'm Jeff Sirois. I'm a developer working on Windows Mobile BSPs.

mikethom_MSFT (Expert):
I am Mike Thomson, Group Program Manager for Windows Embedded CE

Upenders_MSFT (Expert):
Hi, I' Upender Sandadi, a developer in windows devices core team.

KGrey [MSFT] (Expert):
Hi I'm Kevin Grey, I'm a Developer in Test on the Phone/Connectivity team.

Lucia (Expert):
Hi I'm Lucia Darsa, a dev in the Windows CE multimedia team.

Sing Wee [MSFT] (Expert):
Hi, I'm Sing Wee. I'm an SDET in Windows Embedded CE - General Embedded.

oguzs [MSFT] (Expert):
Hi. I am Oguz Sinanoglu. I am a BSP developer in the Windows Devices Core Team. I work on BSPs with focus on bootloaders (IPL, EBOOT) and display drivers.

Dinglu_MSFT (Expert):
Hi, I am Dingding Lu, I'm an SDET in Windows Embedded CE - General Embedded

Viral Mehta [MS] (Expert):
Hi I am Viral Mehta. I am a developer in the Windows CE Device Drivers team.

Sue Loh [MS] (Moderator):
Let’s start the chat!

*Start of Chat

mikehall_ms (Moderator):
Q: when we send an sms using the enfora device is it send as a normal mobile message with only the mob no as the reference ..or we need to enable the wap service of the sim for that ??
A: you don't need to setup WAP to send an SMS message.

Travis Hobrla [MS] (Expert):
Q: Is there a way to determine the TLB size ?
A: This is a hardware property and you should look at the hardware docs. Are you asking about the eBox?

MikeCal [msft] (Expert):
Q: What is the following reg entry used for in serial driver settings "IClass"="{CC5195AC-BA49-48a0-BE17-DF6D1B0173DD}"
A: The IClass is usually used by PowerManager to know what kind of driver this is. It allows people to send power commands to a certain class of drivers.

MikeBaz [judge] (Expert):
Q: Thanks mike where is "IClass"="{CC5195AC-BA49-48a0-BE17-DF6D1B0173DD}" defined i seem to have trouble finding the definition
A: These are spread throughout different header files. See https://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa931922.aspxfor more on this.

Alsun [MS] (Expert):
Q: Is it possible for WM6.0 device to support drag and drop mechanism of transferring data (PC <-> Device) over MTP interface (outside of ASync) and how ?
A: Unfortunately, MTP is not supported in WM6.0. Drag and drop is done through ActiveSync.

Alsun [MS] (Expert):
Q: How does WM device sync with WMP with AS ? Doesn't this capability imply that there is some kind of MTP stack/support riding on top of RNDIS ?
A: WM syncs with WMP using a WMP plug-in that allows WMP to make calls through the ActiveSync stack (calling into the Remote API, RAPI). To be clear, there is no MTP stack on top of RNDIS.

Alsun [MS] (Expert):
Q: Thanks. Just to make sure, Is it correct to say that it is not possible WM device (RAPI device) to enumerate as MTP device ?
A: Yes, that is correct.

Alsun [MS] (Expert):
Q: Thanks again. What about just external memory (card) on device as MTP? Possible or not? What would it require?
A: No problem. The external memory card is also not possible over MTP, because there is no MTP stack. As for what it would require, I'm not sure on what level of context this is being asked. On an application level, there is no way to communicate through MTP.

Jiying (Expert):
Q: A general question related to MTP...MTP over USB is single session. So does this mean when a MTP session is established, only one transaction can take place. E.g Sync with WMP is in progress, user cannot do anything else on MTP device?
A: User should be able to send MTP operations to the same session, in other words, borrow the session. All the transcations will be serialized on initiator side before sending to MTP client.

Sue Loh [MS] (Moderator):
Q: How to we use a Speech processing on CE 6.0 considering we do not have a STT and TTS engine is not provided on CE 6.0 ?
A: Yeah, Windows CE ships with a speech API but not a speech engine which is what you would need in order to do text-to-speech and speech-to-text. There are 3rd party speech engines out there. There is a STT engine that Jim Wilson found that he's going to post about. We were looking to see if there are 3rd party TTS engines you can license for free but did not find any (still looking). You can look around yourself, but if you don't find one, then what you probably have to do is buy one and count the cost of the engine as part of the cost of your project. You might want to try asking around more on forums/newsgroups before paying money.

James Y Wilson (Expert):
Q: I tried to use pocketsphinx on Windows CE, I have been able to compile it using VS 2005 to create three different .exe. Unfortunately, I am stuck and don't know what to do with them. Can u suggest something
A: Other than the PocketSphinx alternative (https://cmusphinx.sourceforge.net/html/cmusphinx.php), one thought would be to use a server based approach to speech processing.

James Y Wilson (Expert):
A: You could send the audio data to a speech server for recognition, and have it return the associated text.

James Y Wilson (Expert):
Q: But don't you think this would defeat the whole idea of developing an eBox based application ? Also since eBox is better capable of handling real time data, don't you think it would be even affect the performance adversely
A: Not really. The eBox can still function as a prototype device representing a low cost, small form factor, user interface. It is not uncommon these days to spread the functionality of an application an aggregate them into a single application. And it would still be a challenge to make it work in a manner that minimizes latency for the end user. You could use wireless networking of some kind to connect to the back end server.

James Y Wilson (Expert):
Q: I agree, but if we are able to port some speech processing on eBox, it would not only decrease the cost but also make our application more 'Real Time'.
A: I agree completely! But keep in mind you are developing a prototype for the IC. You could explain this in your report, and say that the server is a temporary measure until production. I just want to make sure you have enough time to get something working. A porting effort might be a big job in the short time allotted.

James Y Wilson (Expert):
Q: Right! I think this is a good plan for a back up. BTW, Someone on the forum said that they have been able to download a sample TTS engine by downloading a SDK 5.1. What do you think they might been referring to?
A: I am guessing that they were referring to CE 5.0 which does contain a sample TTS and STT engine. Perhaps they are trying to get it working on CE 6.0. Or maybe they were referring to the desktop SDK, thinking this word work on CE as well.

James Y Wilson (Expert):
Q: But CE 5.0 Sample TTS and STT would not work on CE 6.0, would it ?
A: I don't know of anyone who has tried. I can't really say one way or the other.

Sue Loh [MS] (Moderator):
Q: Would CE 5.0 TTS engine sample application work on CE 6.0?
A: Probably, but we haven't tried it so there are no guarantees.

James Y Wilson (Expert):
Q: Do you think pursuing this is feasable / productive considering that CE 5.0 engine was just a 'sample' engine ?
A: If I were you, and I was competing in the IC, I would go for the most conservative options that will demonstrate the concept of your device. My thought would be to implement a server based TTS and STT solution.

James Y Wilson (Expert):
Q: I agree that this would be a far better choice considering the circumstances. But wouldn't it be a better choice if we expect MS to release a STT and TTS to speech engine for CE 6.0 in near future.
A: Yes it would be, but this is the nature of engineering. Some times we have to work in suboptimal conditions. :-)

MikeBaz [judge] (Expert):
Q: How to implement a TTS in ce6, i read in one of your blog that we need 3rd party API, is it possible to code a prototype TTS
A: The APIs are there but there is no engine in the box. It's the (real work code) that you need to add 3rd party

mikehall_ms (Moderator):
Q: Someone suggested that we can use MS agents for TTS, if so can we have access to the required files from MS?
A: Agents are supported on the desktop, not on Windows CE - you need to use a TTS engine on Windows CE.

Renato [MS] (Expert):
Q: Can we expect a Windows CE 6.0 speech processing engine in near future?
A: Nuance provides speech engines for CE.

Sue Loh [MS] (Moderator):
Q: I understand that Nuance provides Speech Processing engine for CE devices. But can we expect Microsoft to release an engine in near future
A: No.

Renato [MS] (Expert):
Q: Does nuance provide a TTS engine also?
A: Yes

Sue Loh [MS] (Moderator):
Q: Is there TTS or STT engine for WM6? (I didn't saw experts' answer)
A: In WM6 there is VoiceCommand which does STT and TTS, but we're not sure right now if there is an API for that included in WM6 (the expert is not here). There might be, we just don't know.

In CE6 (which is different from WM6) the only option is 3rd party engines.

Upenders_MSFT (Expert):
Q: In CE 6 can OEM still override FakeNKHaltSystem
A: Unfortunately no. There is a member in the oem global structure (pfnHaltSystem) but looks like OS is never calling this function pointer.

BorMing_MS (Expert):
Q: In CE 6 can oem still override FakeNKHaltSystem
A: The halt handling is changed to use IOCTL_HAL_HALT. OEM can handle halting with this IOCTL.

Upenders_MSFT (Expert):
Q: How can i figure out which exception caused NKHaltSystem under wince 4.2? Is it too late by then?
A: Looking at wince 5.0 sources, this is usually caused by three different kinds of exceptions: stack overflow fault (i am not sure if this support was added only in wince 5.0 and above), out of memory, and unhandled exception while in a system call. Your best option would be to enable kernel debug zones to get more info. If you have KITL connected, there should be enough output to give you the exception context (PC, return address, faulting virtual address etc.).

BorMing_MS (Expert):
Q: BorMing thanks for the info on IOCTL_HAL_HALT I tried to find out what exception happened based on the following halt message under ce 9873480 PID:77da364a TID:17db99fe RaiseException: Thread=9779f848 Proc=9251a0a8 'app_ce.exe' 9873480 PID:77da364a TID:17db99fe AKY=00000081 PC=03f86900 RA=90406c28 BVA=00000000 FSR=00000000
A: This one looks like an exception raised due to invalid arguments. Can you find out where PC/RA is?

BorMing_MS (Expert):
Q: thanks Borming here is more detail RaiseException: Thread=9779f848 Proc=9251a0a8 'app_ce.exe' AKY=00000081 PC=03f86900 RA=90406c28 BVA=00000000 FSR=00000000 Exception 'RaiseException' Thread=9779f848 AKY=00000081 PC=00410041 BVA=00000000
A: can you find out which function PC/RA is in? (boot, break into debugger, go to disassembly window, drag the PC/RA into the disassembly window)

BorMing_MS (Expert):
Q: it is a nkhalt message here is more, I was wondering what exception caused this I do not think I can break into anything at that time and we do not have application pdb file R0=ffff24fc R1=00000001 R2=00000000 R3=00000000 R4=9040a564 R5=fffd7f64 R6=90406c28 R7=9040714c
A: Reboot the device and break early before the halt occur. Or you can't even get the device to boot? In which case, you'll need to find out the address with viewbin+.map file. "viewbin -o nk.bin" will give you the base of all the modules loaded, find out which module pc/ra is, then use .map file to find out the correspond address of the function.

Sue Loh [MS] (Moderator):
Q: it is a nkhalt message here is more, I was wondering what exception caused this I do not think I can break into anything at that time and we do not have application pdb file R0=ffff24fc R1=00000001 R2=00000000 R3=00000000 R4=9040a564 R5=fffd7f64 R6=90406c28 R7=9040714c
A: We cannot just read these numbers and tell you what is going wrong. You can read https://blogs.msdn.com/sloh/archive/2005/02/28/381706.aspxto learn how to resolve symbols on your own device. Your best bet is to enable the kernel debugger and look at the crash.

mikehall_ms (Moderator):
Q: hi....I want to ask how to a add a C++ application to the final OS design..I was able to add C# image to OS design. but C++ does not allow developing managed code applications but they gave the solution to add c# image rather than adding native code application
A: correct - Windows CE only supports 'native' C++ development, not managed - if you want to write managed code then you can only use C# or Visual Basic - if you want to write C++ applications you can do this directly in Platform Builder - within your operating system design, add a "Sub-Project", this will start the 'new application wizard' and will add a C++ application to your operating system design.

jsirois_MSFT (Expert):
Q: Is there any samplegrabber filter for windows mobile 6.0?
A: No, WM6 doesn't have a sample grabber filter for DirectShow.

jsirois_MSFT (Expert):
Q: So, is there any example for grabbing smart phone camera device? (not a jpeg or still cut, we need raw image)
A: Not exactly. There is a "Camera Capture Graph" sample in the Windows Mobile 6 SDK, but it only shows you how to build a graph with the camera. That would be a starting point, but you'd have to do a fair amount of work to get the images being sent to the preview window.

Lucia_MSFT (Expert):
Q: So, can you give an example for grabbing smart phone camera device? (not a jpeg or still cut, we need raw image) ??
A: As Jeff mentioned, there is a sample for DirectShow to deal with that. You could implement a DirectShow filter that talks directly to the video capture filter (the sample would just be a starting point).

KenSadah_MSFT (Expert):
Q: Is anyone has sample for direct show based camera on WM6 ????
A: Well, there are a few camera samples (see Start > Programs > Windows Mobile 6 SDK > Samples > Samples Readme) and you can search for DirectShow on MSDN.microsoft.com

KenSadah_MSFT (Expert):
Q: Is anyone has sample for direct show based camera on WM6 ????
A: DirectShow samples on MSDN are at https://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms783352.aspx

GLanger_MSFT (Expert):
Q: Is anyone has sample for direct show based camera on WM6 ????
A: The Mainstone platform also provided new sample code for a camera driver in the MDD/PDD model for WinCE6.

KenSadah_MSFT (Expert):
Q: to KenSadah_MSFT >> I already saw that example. but, that example save image on flash. I need to save image to memory buffer. do you know any samples for this?
A: Which sample? Is it one of the three Camera Capture Samples in the WM6 SDK?

KenSadah_MSFT (Expert):
Q: to KenSadah_MSFT >> I already saw that example. but, that example save image on flash. I need to save image to memory buffer. do you know any samples for this?
A: It looks like the API requires you specify a filename to save the file to. You could then read it into memory?

GLanger_MSFT (Expert):
Q: to GLancger_MSFT >> you mean driver level approach or DirectShow based approach?
A: The MDD talks to DirectShow. The new MDD/PDD model for WinCE6 uses a memory buffer approach.

GLanger_MSFT (Expert):
Q: to GLancger_MSFT >> what is MDD? MDD/PDD? what it means?
A: MDD is Media Device Driver and PDD is Physical Device Driver. It means you have less code to write in the PDD that actually talks to the camera hardware.

GLanger_MSFT (Expert):
Q: to GLancger_MSFT Is mainstone board sample offers DirectShow example?
A: Yes, the MDD talks to DirectShow so this is the example to use.

mikehall_ms (Moderator):
Q: I have been trying to figure out how add http, asp, com (using c#) but to no availability. I hope there are good example. Most examples I saw related to building image and simple window CE application
A: Windows CE supports a web server (search the catalog for HTTPD) which is a C++/native application - we don't support ASP.NET on Windows CE - we do support ASP and ISAPI extensions through the native HTTPD web server.

mikehall_ms (Moderator):
Q: Back to q#22, I understand that. but I am looking for a complete example writing COM object using C# and have those object instantiated in old asp.
A: Windows CE doesn't support CCW (com callable wrapper), so there isn't a way for you to launch a C# object from a native code application - it is possible for a managed application to load a native code DLL/COM object.

KGrey [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: When sending files via bluetooth on WM5 the device automatically searches for all devices in range versus using a registered list. has this been enhanced in WM6 so it is less cumbersome to send multiple files to one device without having to seach each time
A: Unfortunately because of the way Bluetooth works, you will need to perform a search each time you open the Beam dialog. I'm interested to know how often you are beaming files and whether this is a more common scenario than we think. If you private message me your email address, I will get in touch with you.

mikehall_ms (Moderator):
Q: back to question #31, I see.. then how to have the asp call the managed (C#) application?
A: the way to do this would be to use Windows Messages between the native code ASP/C++ component and the managed application - your managed application would then handle the Windows Messages and take the appropriate action.

John Spaith [MS] (Expert):
Q: back to question #31, I see.. then how to have the asp call the managed (C#) application?
A: This sounds like you're trying to do ASP.Net (kinda-sorta, I know you're using old ASP but want C# objects). Mike's idea is about the best you can do, but there's slightly different ways you can do this beyond window messages. https://blogs.msdn.com/cenet/archive/2006/08/23/715468.aspxhas some thoughts about this.

John Spaith [MS] (Expert):
Q: Is there any new good example to develop native COM object to run on asp using IDE environment or tool ?
A: The only sample I know of that is CE specific is a simple Web Server configuration COM object that runs in ASP, lets you set Virtual Roots info and the like. It's part of shared source and available at %_WINCEROOT%\public\servers\sdk\samples\http\asp. It doesn't tie into IDE, it's using our build environment command line setup. You may be able to port samples for desktop IIS ASP COM to CE, but how easy or hard it'll be will vary depending on how many dependencies the component has.

mikehall_ms (Moderator):
Q: I am looking some good example to write web service for Window CE 6 using c#
A: CE 6.0 doesn't support managed web services - you need to write your XML Web Service on Windows CE as a native code, C++ ATL/COM Object, hosted by the SOAP toolkit and the HTTPD Web Server. The following article explains the steps - https://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms836762.aspx- I need to update this for CE 6.0, but the steps are about the same.

KGrey [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: I was attempting to add a Bluetooth Modem connection in a Windows Mobile 6 device, because the option was available, will I need to wait for a different AKU, or the CAB release mentioned on the WM team blog
A: JasperM: I'm not sure I understand the question. Were you unable to determine how to create a BT serial port?

KGrey [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: KGrey: in the Add New Modem section for WM6, there is an option for different modem types, Cellular, COM, or bluetooth. When selecting Bluetooth it brings up the paired devices that support DUN, however when attempting to dial out, there is no indication on the phone that there is a dial out process happening.
A: Ok, from a developer's perspective WM6 does support Bluetooth DUN, however it is not exposed in the UI and its not terribly easy to enable from what I can tell. From an end-user's perspective, you shouldn't need Bluetooth DUN in WM6 because it comes with an Internet Sharing application that lets your share your network connection with your laptop/pc quite well. So if your user scenario falls into the 99.9% bucket where you want to have your PC share your internet connection with your mobile device via Bluetooth, then you should be good to go as-is.

KGrey [MSFT] (Expert):
Sorry for the delay. Is this on Smartphone or PocketPC?

KGrey [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: No problem, I'll be here for the entire hour, it is a Windows Mobile 6 Professional (PocketPC) device, i760 I understand, and I believe the BT DUN is coming back for users? I believe https://blogs.msdn.com/windowsmobile/archive/2007/04/17/why-did-we-remove-bluetooth-dun.aspx#commentswhich is great. ICS is not always easily accessible....
A: The only thing I can really tell you right now is that it is being considered for a future release. Sounds like Greg may be working on a CAB install for it, but you already knew that ;)

Greg Scott [MS] (Expert):
Q: how can I route voice using bluetooth in CE 6.0. As it is being used by cell phones also , is there a way to route voice through a bt mike
A: A lot of devices will route audio to BT using a hardware solution especially on phones (directly from the cellular radio to a PCM input on the BT chip). If you want to route audio in software we ship a sample audio driver for Windows CE called btscosnd. See public\common\oak\drivers\bluetooth\sample\btscosnd.

stjong_MSFT (Expert):
Q: How can i route voice through a bluetooth mike in CE 6.0 .
A: You can use the Bluetooth Hand Free Profile shipped in CE 6.0. Check out https://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms898941.aspx.

Greg Scott [MS] (Expert):
Q: in which format do i get the audio data from the bluetooth device into my software on windows ce 6.0.
A: It is uncompressed PCM audio.

David K [MS] (Expert):
Q: which dongle is supported for WM6 ? (no additional drivers)
A: what kind of dongle are you looking for?

Greg Scott [MS] (Expert):
Q: For my bluetooth GPS module.
A: Any Bluetooth dongle that supports the standard Bluetooth USB class driver will work. Most new BT dongles (all?) support this. Any CSR-based dongles (Belkin, etc) should work.

jsirois_MSFT (Expert):
Q: I want to use the video multicast module of Conference XP with win CE. Are DirectX libraries available for win CE so that I can use the same code without any major changes?
A: Windows CE 6 does have support for some DirectX technologies (DirectShow, DirectDraw, and Direct3D Mobile), but they aren't 100% compatible with the desktop versions. In the case of Direct3D Mobile, the API is similar to the desktop's D3D interface, but uses a separate namespace. DirectShow on CE is a subset of what the desktop implements. DirectDraw on CE 6 largely supports the IDirectDraw4 features from the desktop, but only has a single namespace (IDirectDraw). I'm not familiar with Conference XP, so I can't give you a more detailed answer.

Lucia_MSFT (Expert):
Q: Are all functions of Open CV library compatible with WinCE.. It is provided by intel for image proc
A: Can you give more details on the Open CV library?

Lucia_MSFT (Expert):
Q: OpenCV is an open source computer vision library originally developed by Intel. The library is cross-platform, and runs on both Windows and Linux. It focuses mainly towards real-time image processing. The application areas includeHuman-Computer Interface (HCI) Object Identification Segmentation and Recognition Face Recognition Gesture Recognition Motion Tracking Ego-motion Motion Understanding Structure From Motion (SFM) Mobile Robotics.
A: I unfortunately am not sure if it is compatible or not with WindowsCE. We have not tried it here in the multimedia group.

Renato [MS] (Expert):
Q: Anyone Having Idea "Are OpenCV library classes written in C++" compatible with Windows CE
A: No, these are not supported out of the box in Windows CE

Renato [MS] (Expert):
Q: What does it mean ......"No, these are not supported out of the box in Windows CE"...Are OpenCV libraries supported in WinCE....
A: Not by Microsoft. That doesn't mean there isn't someone out there who has ported this library over to CE.

AlexBu [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: What does it mean ......"No, these are not supported out of the box in Windows CE"...Are OpenCV libraries supported in WinCE....
A: The OpenCV library page itself doesn't seem to mention WindowsCE as a platform - mentions WindowsXP/Windows2000 Pro. I think that means that it isn't supported directly.

Viral Mehta [MS] (Expert):
Q: can the serial port be configured to receive high precision low amplification digital signal which can be converted to audio files?
A: I dont know what do you mean by a high precision low amplification digital signal. Can you elaborate? But as long as you run any digital signal through a RS232 level converter, you can receive it on the serial port.

MikeCal [msft] (Expert):
Q: can the serial port be configured to receive high precision low amplification digital signal which can be converted to audio files?
A: If it's just a raw signal, you're going to have difficulty. The serial protocol expects stop bits so it can determine where one byte ends and the next starts. If you just fed a raw signal to it, it wouldn't work. You need something to take samples, convert them to RS232 serial, and then send them as bytes over the serial port.

Viral Mehta [MS] (Expert):
Q: can the serial port be configured to receive high precision low amplification digital signal which can be converted to audio files? We intend to input 0-2 volt microphone input with minimal data loss and reconvert it into audio file ..is RS 232 port
A: You cannot expect a serial port to do a A to D conversion automatically. If you hope to digitize the signal, with minimal data loss, then you probably need a high quality Analog to Digital converter. But I am still confused with what you want to do with this. Does your microphone output a analor signal or a digital signal?

Kurt Kennett [MS] (Expert):
Q: can the serial port be configured to receive high precision low amplification digital signal which can be converted to audio files? We intend to input 0-2 volt microphone input with minimal data loss and reconvert it into audio file ..is RS 232 port
A: Wow. That really depends on your hardware. Serial ports are designed to send chunks of binary data that is 'framed', not continuous streams. I doubt you'd find any hardware that would tolerate it, and can't imagine how you'd configure the port to do it.

Viral Mehta [MS] (Expert):
Q: what is the strategy that need to be adopted to reconvert the stop gap signal obtained from the serial port to an audio stream?
A: I guess at the other end, you can use a D2A converter that understands RS232 serial protocol.

Viral Mehta [MS] (Expert):
Q: what is the strategy that need to be adopted to reconvert the stop gap signal obtained from the serial port to an audio stream?
A: You might want to take a look at this, and see if it works for your project. https://www.futurlec.com/RS232DevBoard.shtml

andyraf_MSFT (Expert):
Q: The microphone is giving 4 lines of digital output to the interfacing port.. its a standard AD instrument medical microphone
A: I suspect the answer is no, although it depends on what exact data you're trying to pass through the serial port. Assuming you've got some external hardware to convert the data to a valid serial bitstream (which is one requirement), the next issue is that the serial port typically has a maximum data rate of around 115k bits/sec. That would support 1 channel of 8kHz 8-bit audio (64 k bits/sec).

AlexBu [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: When i activate the file server (smb / samba) i can share directories. I can see the shares from a Windows XP machine but cannot connect from vista to the shares :-( Vista does not even ask for username and password
A: You aren't on a domain and aren't using IPSec? I can't see why this wouldn't work. Have you tried getting a packet capture and seeing how far the protocol gets?

AlexBu [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: samba shares: i'm not in a domain and do not use ipsec / d did not capture the traffic
A: You are trying to share a folder on Windows CE and access it from Windows Vista - correct?

AlexBu [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: i am trying to share a folder on Windows CE and access it from Windows Vista - it works fine from Windows XP
A: This isn't a scenario I've actually tried. I do know it will work the other way around. CE client to Vista share. How does accessing this share fit into your project? I'm wondering if there something we can come up with to work around this.

Sue Loh [MS] (Moderator):
Q: if i want to control remote laptop's desktop using ebox, and the laptop is controlled by the teacher, how could the teacher stop the control from student at any time? (all done by C#)
A: When you say you want to control a laptop -- this sounds like you want our Remote Desktop component. You should be able to add this component to your OS Design, and build an ebox image that can connect to the laptop. I don't think there is a C# programming interface for remote desktop though.

Sue Loh [MS] (Moderator):
Q: if i want to control remote laptop's desktop using ebox, and the laptop is controlled by the teacher, how could the teacher stop the control from student at any time? (all done by C#)
A: Do you want to CONTROL the laptop, or just view it? We have a projector type interface where you can have a 1-to-many view of a single machine.

Michael_MSFT (Expert):
Q: control and view the laptop
A: Using Remote Desktop, you can remotely view and control, but there isn't a programmatic way for the teacher to block student control.

Sue Loh [MS] (Moderator):
Q: the laptop multicast the desktop frames to the ebox clients, the clients can view it and give some feedback control to the laptop can the teacher view the students control of his laptop on his own laptop? when the student give up the control the control of his teacher's laptop, the teacher can then control the laptop?
A: I don't think you are going to find software from Microsoft that does all you want here. You may have to build your own.

Michael_MSFT (Expert):
Q: to Michael_MSFT i want to know more about the information of remote control, the teacher can view the students control of his laptop on his own laptop?
A: The student(s) can Terminal Serve into the teacher’s computer and view the lesson independently, but thinking about the scenario more, it wouldn't be an interactive session. Even with Vista and our Network Projector functionality, it’s limited to 1:1 projection and ultimately could scale to a limited number of connections, but probably not beyond 10 users given the processing requirements on the host. Live Meeting could potentially meet your needs, but at this time, there isn't a CE based LM client...

mikehall_ms (Moderator):
Q: does latest arm emulator support usb host/device port
A: no, the emulator supports serial, networking, audio, but not USB host/device - you could potentially get this working by writing a DMA driver in the emulator and have an application running on the desktop that passes USB information through the desktop USB connection.

jsirois_MSFT (Expert):
Q: Hi, Im trying to run very basic direct draw sample ddex1 in wince60. Unfortunately i couldn’t achieve. Because it gives error: " GWES Hook fails device creation. DirectDrawCreate fails. "I have added direct draw support (SYSGEN_DDRAW). What’s wrong
A: Typically this error message means that the display driver you're using doesn't support DirectDraw. SYSGEN_DDRAW only adds middle-ware support for DirectDraw, it doesn't necessarily mean that the display driver you're using will support DirectDraw as well.

oguzs [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: [33] Ok. You mean i dont need to add any catalog item or registry entry ...to run ddex1 ? So the bsp' s display driver is not supporting dirext X?
A: The display driver main object must be inherited from DDGPE class in order to support DirectDraw features. A display driver can be based on GPE class which doesn't have DirectDraw capabilities. Please check the base class of your display driver main object.

**mikehall_ms (Moderator):
Q:**Unfortunately Display driver's source codes isnt open. I think i got to ask it to bsp manufacturer ICOP dont i?
A: yes, correct - if the display driver for the eBox doesn't ship with the ICOP BSP then you need to talk to ICOP about getting the source.

James Y Wilson (Expert):
Q: Unfortunately Display driver's source codes isnt open. I think i got to ask it to bsp manufacturer ICOP dont i?
A: Send me an email message (through the IC forum) asking for the display driver and I will get it forwarded to ICOP for you.

mikehall_ms (Moderator):
Q: Are any of the new Pocket PC devices' OS system is Windows CE 5.0? (not Windows Mobile 5.0) Thanks!
A: Windows Mobile 5.0 and Windows Mobile 6 are both based on the Windows CE 5.0 operating system.

MikeCal [msft] (Expert):
Q: Are any of the new Pocket PC devices' OS system is Windows CE 5.0? (not Windows Mobile 5.0) Thanks!
A: Windows Mobile 5 runs on top of Windows CE 5.0. So, in effect, all of them are running CE5. However, if you're asking if they're not using Windows Mobile, no, All "Pocket PCs" are Windows Mobile devices. In the past there has been the occasional PDA based on Windows CE that didn't use Windows Mobile, but it would never have been called "PocketPC."

Karel Danihelka [MS] (Expert):
Q: Are any of the new Pocket PC devices' OS system is Window CE 5.0? (not Window Mobile 5.0) Thanks!
A: Pocket PC is one from two variants of Windows Mobile, so answer must be no. However there are manufacturers who made Windows CE based devices. In most cases they are intended to be used for industrial purposes (warehouse). You can also get Windows CE with some embedded boards.

andyraf_MSFT (Expert):
Q: I know Windows Mobile 5.0 is based on Windows CE 5.0. But I am looking for one Pocket PC its OS is Window CE 5.0, not Windows Mobile 5.0. Thanks!
A: A Pocket PC, by definition, is based off of a Windows Mobile release. Therefore, you will not find a Pocket PC based solely off of Windows CE 5.0. However, Windows Mobile 5.0 is itself based off of Windows CE 5.0. Also, there may be some vertical market devices which have roughly the same form-factor as a Pocket PC and which run only Windows CE 5.0 and which are therefore not technically a Pocket PC (don't ask me to name any though; I don't really know for sure).

mikehall_ms (Moderator):
A: companies like Intermec have “Pocket PC” type devices that are running Windows CE 5.0 or Windows CE 6.0

MikeBaz [judge] (Expert):
Q: For the WMDC, when you enable error logs using the XML files, how do you read the file output? I'm not sure if there is anyone from the WMDC, or ActiveSync team, but thought I would pose it here, as it relates to WM connection to Vista
A: I'm assuming you're referring to wmdc.exe.config changes a la https://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.pocketpc.activesync/msg/b56f2f2aeb13ac20. The log files should be somewhat human-readable.

MikeBaz [judge] (Expert):
Q: So the %TEMP%\WMDC.LOG and %TEMP%\WMDHOST.LOG are readable, are there any plans to release any documentation to OEMs or perhaps any whitepapers?
A: Unfortunately, I don't know that answer, and we don't have any WMDC folks here.

MikeBaz [judge] (Expert):
Q: I understand, what would be the best route for an OEM to go about getting information regarding that?
A: Right now, the best thing to do might be just to hold tight, there is an update coming out specifically related to WMDC on a CE (non-WinMobile) device.

mikehall_ms (Moderator):
Q: How to start emulator in while running platform builder. The window that shows command prompt of WinCE.
A: if you have built the emulator device image in Platform Builder, you should make sure that your download/debug settings are configured for "Emulator (DMA)" - go to "Target Connectivity Options" - once download/debug are configured you can then use "Target | Attach Device" to launch the emulator.

Kurt Kennett [MS] (Expert):
Q: What can cause InterruptInitialize() to fail besides waiting on the interrupt event before calling it?
A: If the sysintr is invalid or the OAL returns an error from the OEMInterruptEnable call.

oguzs [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: What can cause InterruptInitialize() to fail besides waiting on the interrupt event before calling it?
A: One of the reasons may be creating an IST that is not suspended may cause InterruptInitialize to fail because the event is already being waited on.

Travis Hobrla [MS] (Expert):
Q: What can cause InterruptInitialize() to fail besides waiting on the interrupt event before calling it?
A: Other possibilities: passing an invalid Sysintr value, i.e. one that is out of range or already in use. Also, if OEMInterruptEnable (in your OAL) fails, this InterruptInitialize will fail.

Kurt Kennett [MS] (Expert):
Q: Can a USB Device be just used in PS/2 Port
A: PS/2 is not compatible with USB.

David K [MS] (Expert):
Q: Can a USB Device be just used in PS/2 Port
A: Do you mean can you use a USB device, like a USB keyboard or mouse instead of a PS/2 keyboard or mouse? If so, yes, Windows Embedded CE supports USB keyboards and mice.

jsirois_MSFT (Expert):
Q: How do I completely disable the mouse cursor (Windows CE 5.0)?
A: I believe if you "set BSP_NOCURSOR=1" in your build environment, it will not allow the window manager to use a mouse cursor.

Travis Hobrla [MS] (Expert):
Q: Can you point me to some documentation describing steps on how to download run-time CEPC image to flash or hard disk and boot CEPC image from flash or hard disk?
A:https://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms901514.aspxcontains directions for 4.2 (and should work for 5.0). New directions for 6.0 will be posted soon, but the only real changes are that the BIOSLoader was moved to platform\CEPC\src\bootloader\biosloader, the other steps remain generally the same.

Karel Danihelka [MS] (Expert):
Q: Thanks for your help, I find from MSDN that I need to use BootDisk.144 boot floppy disk to download CEPC image, however, do I really need a boot floppy disk if I am using USB flash and can I boot from there?
A: It is possible however today it isn't easy. There is tool from HP which allows you make bootable USB key. Then you have to figure how to fix tools you find in platform\CEPC\src\bootloader\utilities. Easiest is use some version of DOS and then loadcepc utility.

mikethom_MSFT (Expert):
Q: How do I reset the user password to a default without knowing the current password (Windows CE 5.0)?
A: If we allowed you to do this then the model overall would not be very secure. So the answer is no in general. If your system is using the object store for data then a cold boot of the device will wide out the password data and everything else. If you have a registry hive then you need to delete that file to elimiated the password.

Sue Loh [MS] (Moderator):
Q: How do I reset the user password to a default without knowing the current password (Windows CE 5.0)?
A: Yeah basically there is no option but to wipe the device clean.

mikethom_MSFT (Expert):
Q: Is there a documented/recommended way to delete the user registry hive?
A: There is a BOOTABLE flag in your config file for your image ( look at your .reg files) that will tell you the location of the file. It is a file so knowing it location will help you delete it. If it is locked and open then you still may not be able to delete the file. Look in the docs for registry hive for more details in the settings.

Sue Loh [MS] (Moderator):
Q: Is there a documented/recommended way to delete the user registry hive?
A: Be careful here. If you’re talking about the SYSTEM password (for unlocking the device) then it’s not a user password. It’s a system password and it’s stored in the system hive. In that case you need to delete the system hive, which is essentially a full device reset. If you do that, you should probably wipe the user hives and maybe even the whole file system. In my opinion the only safe thing to do is to wipe the whole device, because who knows if you’ll get problems from stale files hanging around while you start with a totally fresh registry (the OS might not be expecting that case). However I’ve argued with our MVPs about this before and many of them are of the opinion that it’s perfectly reasonable to wipe ONLY the registry. Anyway, the way to wipe just the registry is to use RegReplaceKey with HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE and a NULL replacement file, then reboot. Or to implement IOCTL_HAL_GET_HIVE_CLEAN_FLAG in the OAL. For wiping the file system I think the answer is on https://blogs.msdn.com/ce_base/archive/2006/02/09/How-OEMs-implement-Clean-Boot-on-WM5.aspxbut that option is only open to OEMs.

If you’re truly talking about a per-user password it’s probably the user crypto key linked to the user profile. My memory is rusty but I think it is optional whether the crypto key is stored in the user hive. RegReplaceKey can wipe the user hive if you pass HKEY_CURRENT_USER.

Karel Danihelka [MS] (Expert):
Q: Does CE 6.0 have a sample stream interface driver that uses interrupts?
A: You will find lot of them in public\common\oak\drivers subdirectory. Unfortunately I don't see there one which is mostly template. Try to check platform specific drivers which you can find in platform\common\src\soc directory.

mikethom_MSFT (Expert):
Q: Is there a unit test harness for a generic stream interface driver? The sample program that loads the DLL, activates device, create file, read file, write file, close file, etc?
A: There should be CETK tests in the product for testing some of the stream drivers like serial. I don' think there is a generic one.

mikehall_ms (Moderator):
Q: is there a way to get pocket excel and pocket word to run it on ce 6 on the ebox?
A: no, these applications only ship with Windows Mobile, not Windows CE - there are some companies that provide word and excel viewers for Windows CE 6.0 though.

Corey Burke [MS] (Expert):
Q: I'm looking for a wi-fi card whose driver is available for Win CE 6.0. Can you name one?
A: Out of the box there is support for the Sychip SDIO cards https://www.sychip.com/, the AR6000 chip (I think this doesn't come in card form), and Intersil

Corey Burke [MS] (Expert):
Q: I'm looking for a wi-fi card whose driver is available for Win CE 6.0. Can you name one?
A: I should also note that you can use a US Robotics USB wifi adapter (USR805421). This will use RNDIS for the network connection, but it is often a solution that works for most prototype boards.

Samuel Phung (MVP) (Expert):
Q: I'm looking for a wi-fi card whose driver is available for Win CE 6.0. Can you name one?
A: Via VT6655 and VT6656 802.11 b/g WiFi chip have CE 5.0 and 6.0 drivers. There should be hardware in different format using these two chips. I have used VT6655 in MiniPCI format and VT6656 with USB interface.

James Y Wilson (Expert):
Q: I'm looking for a wi-fi card whose driver is available for Win CE 6.0. Can you name one?
A: You can also use an RNDIS compliant USB WiFi dongle to obtain 802.11 support.

mikehall_ms (Moderator):
Q: What needs to be enabled to use USB with a thumb drive in 6.0? Mouse and keyboard are working, but thumb drives aren't recognized.
A: you need to add the USB Storage component to your o/s image - search the catalog for SYSGEN_USB_STORAGE

MikeCal [msft] (Expert):
Q: Does KB933344 only apply to WM5 PocketPC devices? The reproduction steps are specific to PocketPC, but does it exhibit itself in SmartPhones as well? https://support.microsoft.com/kb/933344/en-us
A: I'm not 100% sure, but the bug appears to be that the time zone is set to the "visiting" time zone. Since Smartphones don't have a Visiting time zone, I wouldn't expect this to affect them.

Karel Danihelka [MS] (Expert):
Q: we should use GPRS for our production. but we have only a phone which i should connect to ebox. we have serial to usb cables only. But drivers for them are present for winXP only. how can we manage that?. do we need to create a serial cable?
A: There isn't simple answer to that, as it depends on Windows Mobile phone OS version. If you have WM phone which support internet sharing (some version of WM 5.0) most easiest is to activate this functionality on phone. Then you need to add to your iCop image RNDIS supoort.

Karel Danihelka [MS] (Expert):
Q: I have to control a stepper motor with the ebox...As there is no parallel port in ebox2300,Either I have to use as it is or i have to use a convertor from USB to parallel...Which is Better?
A: I would recommend to check phidgets web site. Good is there are Windows CE drivers for their devices.

James Y Wilson (Expert):
Q: I have to control a stepper motor with the ebox...As there is no parallel port in ebox2300,Either I have to use as it is or i have to use a convertor from USB to parallel...Which is Better?
A: Could you use the Phidgets device supplied with the eBox 2300 to provide the DIO you need?

James Y Wilson (Expert):
Q: I didnt had a servo motor then....Can I control a Stepper Motor with the phidgets devices
A: Well the Phidgets device just provides input and output digital lines, and a few ADC's. I suspect you would still need a stepper motor controller to obtain the timing you need, but you could interface to this controller chip with the Phidgets

mikehall_ms (Moderator):
Q: this problem occurred when trying to deploy phidgets device. Deploying 'C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio 8\SmartDevices\SDK\CompactFramework\2.0\v2.0\windowsce\diagnostics\System_SR_enu.cab' The parameter is incorrect. i couldn’t resolve.
A: do you have SYSGEN_WCELOAD in your operating system image ? - this is needed to unpack the CAB file on the device

mikethom_MSFT (Expert):
Q: hi we want to integrate e box with flash. how can we do that? from where we can find out drivers?
A: If you are looking for a Macromedia Flash component then you can go to Adobe or NEC America ( online ) as well.

mikethom_MSFT (Expert):
Q: it is a macromedia flash component. do we need any drivers for it?

mikehall_ms (Moderator):
Q: it is a macromedia flash component. do we need any drivers for it?
A: Macromedia have a "Flash" component for Windows CE - this doesn't ship with the Windows CE product - you would need to go to the macromedia web site to get more information.

KenSadah_MSFT (Expert):
Q: it is a macromedia flash component. do we need any drivers for it?
A: Contact Adobe Systems about Adobe Flash (MACR merged with ADBE in Dec 2005) - see https://www.adobe.com/products/flashplayer_sdk/

Sue Loh [MS] (Moderator):
Q: Can I see the previous chatting??
A: The transcript of today’s chat will be posted online soon, to https://msdn.microsoft.com/chats/transcripts/default.aspx. And if you are part of the Imagine Cup, then the transcript will soon be available from your Imagine Cup "my competition" page.

mikehall_ms (Moderator):
Q: when is WM on WinCE6.0 scheduled to release ?
A: we've not announced any timeline around future Windows Mobile releases.

MikeBaz [judge] (Expert):
Q: WE HAVE A QUESTIONS ABOUT REAL TIME OPERATIONS IN CE
A: Can you be more specific?

MikeBaz [judge] (Expert):
Q: SORRY - CAN YOU MEASURE OR ADJUST A TIME FOR REACTION, INTERRUPT LATENCY
A: You can use ILTiming to help do interrupt latency measurements for a specific OS build on your specific target hardware; this tool ships with Platform Builder. Of course you have to be sure you deal with priorities on your ISTs correctly as well. See also https://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/wce/plan/realtime.mspxand https://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/embedded/aa714541.aspx

MikeBaz [judge] (Expert):
Q: DO YOU HAVE ANY SPECIFICATION AND GRAPHICS ABOUT MEASURING LATENCY TIME
A: This is always the magic question, but it's really impossible to answer generically because it depends on your specific OAL, HW, and build configuration. If you start with those two links I gave before you can get to information on specific measurements for specific cases.

Renato [MS] (Expert):
Q: I am not able to extract Html code of microsoft using C#.....Its giving error : Forbidden Error 403
A: Can you be more specific? What are you trying to do and how?

**MikeBaz [judge] (Expert):
Q:**System.Net.WebClient Client = new WebClient(); Stream strm = Client.OpenRead(“https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft”);//giving HTTP forbidden error 403 StreamReader sr = new StreamReader(strm); It means it could open if i have a direct connection to the internet
A: The code looks fine at first glance if you have a connection that does not require proxy authentication. Is it possible you're behind a proxy that needs credentials to be passed? That could be happening silently on your workstation, so you might not know.

**joshbw_MSFT (Expert):
Q:**System.Net.WebClient Client = new WebClient(); Stream strm = Client.OpenRead(“https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft”);//giving HTTP forbidden error 403 StreamReader sr = new StreamReader(strm); It means it could open if i have a direct connection to the internet
A: If I had to guess what is happening I would say there is likely an error because there isn't actually a file at that specific URL. the URL resolves in IE because wikipedia is passing it to their code generation engine and posting a response to the URL but using webclient the same steps don't happen as they do in IE

Lindsay_MSFT (Expert):
Q: for the final report ..what we need to include in performance requirements section under the Market overview section??
A: In this section, please describe what type of performance you are trying to meet to create the optimal user experience for your target audience. What are your goals for the requirements of your system? What performance requirements are you addressing to make your device valuable in the market....

Sue Loh [MS] (Moderator):
Q: further in the tech section what are the actual test results that we need to generate ...does the performance results include real
A: Well the answer is different for every project. It is your job to convince the judges that your project works, that you are well prepared, and that the project will feasibly satisfy the goals you are trying to achieve. Here are some examples of what I expect to see when I’m reading a report: If you are building a network of many small devices, how many devices can your network support? If you are using sensors to detect something, is the latency between an event and your sensors’ detection of the event well within the tolerance required by your system? If you are processing images or audio signals, can you do it fast enough? If you are transferring a lot of data (e.g. audio or video) what is the throughput, what is the quality of the signal at the receiver? Think what are the important requirements of your project, and measure that those requirements are satisfied.

Lindsay_MSFT (Expert):
Q: for the final product, do we need to create an os which runs only our application?
A: For the final product, you need to: Configure, build, debug, and deploy a Windows Embedded CE 6.0 operating system image. (Please note: It is not sufficient to build an application on top of a pre-existing Windows CE image. Build an application on top of the Windows CE image Use the eBox 2300 your target hardware (Please note: The ebox-2300 will be provided by Microsoft to all round 2 participants)

Lindsay_MSFT (Expert):
Q: for the final product, do we need to create an os which runs only our application?
A: For the final product, you need to 1. configure, build, debug, and deploy a Windows Embedded CE 6.0 operating system image. (Please note: It is not sufficient to build an application on top of a pre-existing Windows CE image. 2. Build an application on top of the Windows CE image 3. Use the eBox 2300 your target hardware

Sue Loh [MS] (Moderator):
Q: for the final product, do we need to create an os which runs only our application?
A: I don’t think it’s necessary to make the OS run ONLY your application (in fact in some projects, the other applications in the OS are part of the project…). Do what makes sense for your project. It is OK to expect the user to launch your application.

Sue Loh [MS] (Moderator):
Q: we need to use a gps tool for the product. but at the moment we cannot collect such. Is it ok if we use a simulator for the purpose?
A: Let me give my opinion as a judge on this. Ideally you should have all of your hardware, but if it is not possible, then a simulator is better than nothing. What I don't like about simulators is that you could potentially end up missing problems that you would have had to deal with in real life. However, we all understand that sometimes things are just not possible, and it's better to be able to show us the rest of your project than to have your project not work at all. Finding creative solutions to real problems is part of the competition...

Sue Loh [MS] (Moderator):
Q: when we are calculating the cost for the product, do we need to include all equipments we use here?. for eg. if we use a phone as a gprs modem, should the price of the phone need to include?
A: In my opinion, you can report what the cost of components would be in your end product, not in your development set-up. However you should make it clear in your report that the hardware you're calculating costs for is different from the hardware you're building, and why.

Sue Loh [MS] (Moderator):
Thank you for joining us today for our Windows Embedded CE 6.0 chat today!

A special thank you to the product group members for coming out.

Sue Loh [MS] (Moderator):
The transcript of today’s chat will be posted online soon, to https://msdn.microsoft.com/chats/transcripts/default.aspx. We’ll see you again for another chat next month. Please checkhttps://msdn.microsoft.com/chatsfor the list of upcoming chats.

Sue Loh [MS] (Moderator):
If you still have unanswered questions, let me suggest that you post them on one of our newsgroups, such as Microsoft.public.windowsce.platbuilder. Or if you're part of the Imagine Cup, use the forums on the Imagine Cup web site.

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