System Builder Chat: Licensing and Anti-piracy (February 22, 2005)

Published: March 15, 2005

Please note:Portions of this transcript have been edited for clarity

Introduction

Bret [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Welcome to today’s chat. Our topic today is…System Builder Chat on Licensing and Anti-piracy

JD - Microsoft (Expert):
Hi all. Welcome!

Victor Mux aka BOB (Expert):
Welcome to today’s chat! My name is Victor Mux. I’ll be helping out with questions today.

Bret [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Hello All! Bret here with the System Builder Tech Team [aka BOB]. Hope everybody's ready to talk about licensing. Woohooo!

SteveWin [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Howdy...I am Steve with the BOB Team...bring on the questions!!!

Start of Chat

SteveWin [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: Good work on the Live Meeting today guys. Most the speakers on there are boring as heck but you guys manage to keep it live and upbeat! 9's!
A: Thanks...we try...:)

JD - Microsoft (Expert):
Q: I do a lot of work for blind users, and in most of the contracts I setup the computer in the users home or busness and install all of their software ie Office, Windows, 3rd party products. Am I allowd to accept the EULA for them
A: Yes, you can accept the EULA for your accounts as long as you have their permission.

JD - Microsoft (Expert):
Q: I hate to reiterate the meeting, but you said if you upgrade a mobo in any pc you are required to purchase a new os correct?
A: Yes, the OEM OS is tied to the motherboard. So, if the motherboard fails while under warranty the license remains intact. However, if you are simply upgrading for feature or performance enhancements, you would need a new OS license.

Roger Goh [msft] (Expert):
Q: I hate to reiterate the meeting, but you said if you upgrade a mobo in any pc you are required to purchase a new os correct?
A: Yes, if you UPGRADE the mobo, you need to get a new OS because the OS is tied to the mobo.

SteveWin [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: Does MS have a central place on the web that EULAs are stored for old copies of your products (e.g. Windows 2000, Windows NT4 Wkstn, etc.). Presenter in anti-piracy webinar gave URL for WinXP Pro. Could you provide that one again. Thx
A:http://www.microsoft.com/legal/useterms/default.aspx. I do not think we have the older EULAs on-line anymore. Sorry.

Victor Mux aka BOB (Expert):
Q: k guys, my question is .i have a system i sold, mainboard is to handle a 3.2 processor but originally sold it with 2.4 with promise of upgradeability to 3.2, though main board works fine with 2.4 it does not with 3.2, is this considered a failed mainboard
A: This is still considered an upgrade if the motherboard is changed. You might want to try using the latest BIOS for the motherboard. If it still doesn’t support the 3.2 GHz CPU and you replace the motherboard then you’ll have to sell them a new OS.

Roger Goh [msft] (Expert):
Q: Can use OPK and fully boot the computer and test the system, and still have the end user accept EULA?
A: Yes, you can. After that, you just need to use sysprep /reseal and the next time it boots, the end user will go through the initial out of box experience.

Victor Mux aka BOB (Expert):
Q: you got to be kidding if i take a pc with same mainboard and upgrade mem and processor, then they gotta buy a new os???????????????????????????????????????????????????????
A: As long as the motherboard is the original and you upgrade the memory and processor then you don't have to sell them a new OS. If the motherboard is changed as an upgrade then a new OS has to be sold. If the motherboard is replaced because of failure then you don't have to sell them a new OS.

SteveWin [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: May I forward the slide desk from the anti-piracy presentation to others?
A: Sure

Tracy - MSFT (Expert):
Q: If we are asked to service a PC for someone, who we didn't build the system for, and we find out that they have an illegal copy of XP on their system. What should we do, apart from selling a copy of XP to them?
A: That can be an uncomfortable conversation to begin with your customer. I would share the report that is generated when a non-genuine product ID is confirmed via the Windows Genuine Advantage site. First step would be to send them back to the reseller where they purchased the product and tell them they should demand a refund or genuine software. Next, you can suggest they report the reseller to piracy@microsoft.com. But, yes, if that doesn't work, then they need to buy a new license in order to ensure that they are protected and can access the downloads available on the download center and the special offers from Windows Genuine Advantage.

Ann Kaill (Expert):
Q: As part of the OEM license a system builder is required to offer support, does this mean free support?
A: There is no requirement that it be free support - you can certainly charge for it.

SteveWin [aka BOB] (Moderator):
James...you know better...:) Submit your comments to Tracy to the Experts!!!

Victor Mux aka BOB (Expert):
Q: I wanted to save the live session to PDF, but when I completed the survey the session closed immediately.
A: email us at bobtalk@microsoft.com and we'll send you a link for where you can download it.

Bret [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: Do you still have different levels of the action pack or is it all just 1 price now?
A: We have two levels and two prices. $299 for standard or $399 and get a one-year subsctiption to the bCentral list builder. You can get more info at partner.microsoft.com/actionpack

JD - Microsoft (Expert):
Q: Am I wrong or is there different wordage for the different types of license 's with say XP OS and MS Office,Then why does it say that that u can install OS on up to 2 systems for personal use in the License agreement?
A: Each and every product we publish has its own EULA. Even different version of the same product may have different EULAs (for example, XP Pro SP1 and XP Pro SP2 are different; XP Pro OEM and XP Pro Retail also have different EULAs). The XP Pro OEM EULA states clearly that the product can only be installed on a single system and that it cannot be transfered off that system onto another system.

SteveWin [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: if i put 4 hard drives(each drive failing) in a pc and change nothing else during that time, how many times can I activate it over the internet before I have to call it in
A: It depends. Bottom line is that if you will still be able to activate over the phone if the Internet way doesn't work. Sorry I cannot be more specific.

Bret [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: If that is the case I guess we would have to purcahse the Action Pak! So we have accessabilty to more than 1 License?
A: Actually, with Action Pack you get 10 licenses for desktop OS's and software and 1 license for server OS's.

Ann Kaill (Expert):
Q: As a tech, is it legal to reinstall an OS if they have a COA and no OS disk? changing nothing in pc, just a clean install?
A: As a tech - you'd need to use the customers original OS disk - if they don't have one - you should suggest that they go back to their original PC manufacturer and request one.

Victor Mux aka BOB (Expert):
Q: What is the web link for finding out about future TechNet ChatRooms for Systems Builders? Do the other licensing teams (Volume Licensing) have similar scheduled chat rooms?
A: Here is the link for future chat sessions. http://www.microsoft.com/communities/chats/default.mspx You'll be able to see what other topics are available.

Roger Goh [msft] (Expert):
Q: if i as a repair person and have no disk to restore a system to, and i call the mfg and they send me a restore disk for my customer, it comes with the original op sys. is it legal for me to 1. purchase that disk for my customer and 2. install it???????????
A: If the system you are referring to is a branded "Direct OEM" PC and they have a "restore disk" instead of the regular Distribution type disk, and the owner of the system has all the other documentation (user manual, coa sticker) that originally came with the system, you can go ahead and restore the system for them. You need to be very careful that you are not helping somebody Hard Disk Load.

Victor Mux aka BOB (Expert):
Q: Slide #47 of the anti-piracy webinar deck mentioned transfer-rights for used PCs. It states "that the entire PC may be transferred to a new user, as long as the ...." You were referring only to OEM O/S licenses, correct? Not volume license apps, correct
A: Yes, here is the link that explains this. http://oem.microsoft.com/script/ContentPage.aspx?pageid=552861

SteveWin [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: Not really related to Licensing, but are there any situations where you guys would recommend Linux over a Windows solution?
A: I have been advised by legal council to avoid answering this question...:)...There may be some places where Linux would fit, but they are few and far between...especially if you are looking at other things beside the intital acquistion cost.

Bret [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: When do the Action Pack license expire?
A: It is a yearly subscription so you would need to renew on your anniversary date of purchase or cease using the software.

Bret [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: then why did toshiba send me the restore disk without verifying i had all available documentation such as the coa and manuals, etc..... is this something that they can do
A: Well we can't speak to Toshiba's replacement policy but I suspect they would normally verify that you have the proper information.

JD - Microsoft (Expert):
Q: the sys can be oem or a custom build that just needs to be wiped and a clea install put on it. But, If they have lost thier os disk and have a valid COA on the bck of the pc is it legal or illegal?
A: Part of the problem is that it is very easy to purchase stand-alone COA stickers over the internet; some of them are even Genuine. However, that alone does not make up a full license; the full OEM license is the COA, the edge-to-edge CD (or from a Direct account, a restore CD), and the manual. If the end user has lost their CD they should first go back to where they purchased their system and request a replacement. There will probably be a fee for that replacement. My suggestion to you is to not re-install from your own CD. If the product was not properly licensed, you could be guilty of Hard Disk Loading. If I lost my Linkin Park CD, is anyone going to give me a replacement for free? Probably not; it's back to the store to buy another one.

Bret [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: So Bret what would the Experts recommend to say a Sys. Builder that also build's their own new system more then once a year?
A: I would say subscribe to an Action Pack and use one of the 10 desktop licenses for that purpose.

Victor Mux aka BOB (Expert):
Q: Question to Victor: Yes to what? Yes that slide #47 applies to OEM O/S only or No?
A: Yes it does apply to OEM O/S.

Bret [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: Steve I agree wholeheartedly, but the time sensitive license is the issue. If MS were to extend past the 1 yr exp. maybe us little guys might justify the purchase.
A: I'm afraid I have to disagree with you, bch. The cost of renewal is $199. That's less than two hundred bucks a year for that ability to use well over $20,000 in software. Surely that ROI is justifiable even for a small shop.

JD - Microsoft (Expert):
Q: Could you explain Academic licensing. For example a customer wants me to build a system for them and use their Academic Version OS
A: I can't get into Academic Licensing in any depth as my expertise is OEM licensing, however one thing I can tell you is that ALL Academic licensing for the desktop OS (XP PRO) is UPGRADE ONLY. So the answer is NO, you cannot build a new system and use Academic licensing to install XP Pro. As an Upgrade, there must be a legal underlying license on each system. http://oem.microsoft.com/script/ContentPage.aspx?pageid=552854 for additional info.

Bret [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: Ah now that you let the cat out of the bag, that is a lot of software! It makes sense. :-0
A: Glad to hear it, bch. Go sign up now at partner.microsoft.com/actionpack

Ann Kaill (Expert):
Thanks for your questions!

Bret [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Thank you for joining us today on a Microsoft Community Chat to talk about licensing and anti-piracy.
We hope you join us for our next chat on March 1 at 12:00 noon PST - Data Protection Server.

Bret [aka BOB] (Moderator):
That's our time, guys. Thanks for hanging out with us to talk about licensing and piracy. Please feel free to talk to us at bobtalk@microsoft.com or visit our community site at http://www.microsoft.com/technet/community/newsgroups/dgbrowser/en-us/default.mspx?dg=microsoft.public.systembuilder&lang=en&cr=US

Roger Goh [msft] (Expert):
Thanks for attending the chat. This was fun.

SteveWin [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: How does MS refer to MS Business Solutions Group pricing. Is that called "MBS licensing" or "MBSG licensing." Is licensing through the volume licensing program called "Classic" or "traditional"? I cannot remember terms and need to properly refer to them.
A: Classic is the traditional stack.

JD - Microsoft (Expert):
Q: The Linkin Park analogy was good. 1 that I can use , Thanks
A: Here's the follow up to that one. If someone loses their COA sticker here's how I answer that... if you go to the bank and get a new $100 bill, and write down the serial numbers, then lose the $100 bill, is the Dept of Treasury going to replace the money? Probably NOT! :-0

SteveWin [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Bye Y'all!!!!

JD - Microsoft (Expert):
Take care everyone!