Product Activation (April 11, 2005)

Published: April 20, 2005

Please note:Portions of this transcript have been edited for clarity

Introduction

Bret [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Welcome to today’s chat. Our topic today is…Product Activation Changes
We are pleased to welcome our Experts for today’s chat. I will have them introduce themselves now

Matt Davis [MSFT] (Expert):
Hi! I'm Matt Davis, Technology Specialist for the Microsoft Worldwide System Builder Channel.

Bret [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Hello all! Bret here from the System Builder BOB team to talk to you about product activation

Sherri (Expert):
Hello everyone. This is Sherri, and I'm in WW License Compliance. Look forward to chatting with you today.

Bret [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Hi schererdata, if you have a question please use the "submit as question" button. Also please refrain from using all caps if you wouldn't mind.

Start of Chat

Matt Davis [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: This isn't really a question, just quickly before all the main stuff starts. I want to say, the System Builder Support email, Matt Davis your responses to questions are great, almost instant replies, you guys do a great job replying to emails.
A: Thanks for the feedback. I am glad that you've found my responses and responses from others on the SBST@microsoft.com valuable.

Matt Davis [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: Just got in, Buying from Auth. Dist. , preload and hand out a copy of Winxp, paste the keycode bar to the side is what we do. Has anything, changed that we should be aware of?
A: No, there are no changes in product activation to be concerned with if you are purchasing from an authorized distributor, preinstalling the Operating System, affixing the Certificate of Authenticity to the chassis and providing the customer with the full packaging. We are discussing changes in product activation that affect machines shipped from the largest computer manufacturers.

Bret [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: I missed the original webinar on this... Does this mean we will not be able to activate, new outta the box systems over the internet ? i.e. HP, Dell, etc.
A: Systems purchased from HP, Dell, etc. are already activated so this won't be an issue.

Bret [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: Why did Microsoft do this?
A: One form of piracy occurs when Product Keys are stolen from Certificates of Authenticity (COAs) that have been placed on direct OEM machines where the Windows software was preinstalled using SLP. Pirates take the Product Key from these COAs and sell them to resellers or customers who then use them to activate a hard disk loaded copy of Windows. Sometimes they steal the entire COA, pulling it off of the PC and reattaching it to a hard disk loaded machine in an attempt to pass it off as genuine. To reduce the illegal trafficking of these OEM product keys Microsoft will “disable” the ability to activate some of these direct OEM Product Keys over the Internet. When a customer or reseller tries to activate using a Product Key found on the list of “disabled” Keys, the online product activation wizard will instruct them to call Microsoft where a customer service representative can assist them further. Call center operators receiving these calls will only issue an override key to customers who correctly answer

Matt Davis [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: We are a recycler, machines come in with XP, NT etc already installed - they have the COA on the outside - main brands Dell..Compaq etc - Are you saying that if we do not have the hard copy license agreement - that we can not leave the operating system on
A: As long as you provide the operating system with the machine that it shipped on and include the materials from the original OEM you can provide the Operating System with the recycled PCs. The change that you will notice now is that you will likely have to do phone activation for the operating systems. You will not be able to perform activation over the internet.

Sherri (Expert):
Q: Would this Larger OEM activation policy, ever spread to Smaller OEMs in the future?
A: Hello. We are evaluating the overall experience and how to best protect customers from piracy and level the playing field for our honest partners. Whether it extends to other OEMs in the future depends on whether this achieves our intended objectives. Thanks for asking!

Bret [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: if you want to crack down on pirecy come to my local flea market people are selling name brand systems and whit box systems with windows xp home or pro and office 2003 with no cd's or coa's on the cases, turned a bunch in 3 weeks ago and they are still out
A: Please send an email to piracy@microsoft.com. Those guys would love to hear about it.

Bret [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: How is this change going to help the system builder channel?
A: Well it will help you because it will make it much harder for those System Builders who are undercutting your prices by using illegal software to continue to do so.

Sherri (Expert):
Q: if you want to crack down on pirecy come to my local flea market people are selling name brand systems and whit box systems with windows xp home or pro and office 2003 with no cd's or coa's on the cases, turned a bunch in 3 weeks ago and they are still out
A: You hit on a very real and difficult source of piracy. Flea markets are disturbingly prevalent. Please report them to "piracy@microsoft.com" or 1-800-RULEGIT so that we can have them on our radar. Thanks for the lead.

Matt Davis [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: Bret, like many others we need to reinstall a sysprep image on a HP, Dell, IBM, etc. We cannot use the image already installed on the machine (we have tried). Is there any other way to keep the SLP of the images that come with Dell, hp, etc?
A: It may be possible to keep the SLP in place that shipped with the original image from one of the larger computer manufacturers. You will need to use CTRL-Shift-F3 to re-enter Audit Mode, make changes and then image the machine after sysprep -factory or sysprep -reseal. Do not make changes to the full OS, do not create a new full install or files and information relevant to SLP from the original manufacturer will be lost.

Bret [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: I personally think it is a good thing. Anything to combat piracy, etc is good. Also, I guess, it creates a bit of money for us system builders. Those consumers who don't want to phone up and get us to activate their Dell, HP machines, etc over the phone.
A: Well we were hoping you guys would understand that and feel that way.

Matt Davis [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: Currently I load my WinXP Pro syspreped image and login for the first time and try to do the internet activation and it fails. I click "remind me later" and it logs me off. If I shut down and power it back on and login it logs on fine and is activated?
A: You need to create your sysprep image only after running sysprep -reseal or sysprep -factory. My guess is that you created your image after simply powering off the computer or after running sysprep -audit. Another possibility is that you received a message stating that the "grace period will not be reset". If any of these are the case, then sysprep will not reset the 30 day activation countdown. If this occurs, you will not be able to proceed and should re-create your image, unfortunately.

Matt Davis [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: I realize this is for our (system builder's) benefit. This is about making sure XP installs are legit. I reload XP for cutomers and my rentals. Will I have to be on the phone for these from now on? If so, what is Microsoft's stance on copying the WPA.dbl?
A: The WPA.dbl fix is not relevant to the changes in product activation that we are discussing today. The changes in product activation which have occurred recently affect the largest computer manufacturers shipping SLP or system-locked-preinstall. SLP takes the place of product activation on these machines so the wpa.dbl info that you might find on the web would not apply.

Bret [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: Bret, We have tried that method and it does not work. Has anyone at microsoft actually tried this method? As far as we can tell information is written somewhere that prevents sysprep from running again.
A: Yes, actually we do this all the time and it works quite successfully for us. I am not sure how you are doing this but I promise it can be done.

Bret [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: dell has a restor partion but alot of times it is corupt and that fricken cd that they give the customer or in my case the retail and lease company nad when u try to use the cd that does not require a cd key when your finished installing and use key finder
A: I'm sorry you're having some heartburn around that. Unfortunately, we don't really have much recourse there except to tell you to address it with their technical support.

Sherri (Expert):
Q: I understand the thought behind this, but I have customers that constantly see the spam that offers it (Windows and Office) at incredible prices, then they accuse me of gougin. I have turned them over to the Anti- team before, so is it buyer beware ?
A: Thanks for reporting the spam to anti-piracy. It is a HUGE problem and it is putting customers at risk of any number of potential problems. Yes, it is "let the buyer beware" and in today's climate of viruses, worms and bugs they are risking more than the cost of the software. Spam offers have no warranty, guarantees, service or protection, and if the customer buys from them and they have a problem, they will most likely not be able to find the Spammer to get restitution. You offer credibility, security, and peace of mind!

Sherri (Expert):
Q: Where can I find detailed information regarding all of the changes?
A:http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/partners/productactivation.mspx

Bret [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: after reporting documented priracy to microsoft does it take for you to get them to stop or shut them down
A: We do follow up on ever lead we get but it varies depending upon what it is. If it goes to litigation, it may take quite some time and you won't hear about it because once it gets to that point we legally can't speak about it outside of the court system.

Matt Davis [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: I have one customer which I do custom installs for and have been using the same image (Drive Dup) for 3 months now. His last shippment he is complaining the product key is invallid. He reloads and all is fine. How may I correct this?
A: Is this one machine or one batch of machines? Are you reimaging a machine from a large OEM manufacturer? Or is this is an image that you have created? The issues that we are discussing today involve product activation. Is the image/machine not able to activate or can you not even input the product key from the Certificate of Authenticity label?

Bret [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: Does this new activation target already pirated copies, or is this focusing on only new copies that are being deployed/activated?
A: Well both really. It does affect all of the illegally used COA's out there and will also affect COA's on new machines.

Sherri (Expert):
Q: Opps, How long will the blackout last?
A: Hello. We are constantly assessing how well our activities are performing against objectives. As long as this step is successful at protecting customers from being duped and helps honest partners by leveling the playing field, we'll keep doing it.

Bret [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: How would MS be able to target the already pirated copies out there if they are already illegally activated?
A: Well once a machine is activated there's not much we can do about it but at some point if they add or change hardware or need to reinstall then they will run into problems.

Matt Davis [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: Come to think of it, my sysprep problem started to happen after 2/28. I just got informed of all this changing so I am now putting 2 and 2 together. I am using IBM OEM and unable to internet activate. sysprep -activated -reseal -mini is the command line
A: After 2/28 is when we put the new product activation changes in-place. So, yes, I'm not surprised that is when you began seeing changes which would not allow you to do internet activation of the product key on the COA label. That is a change which would absolutely affect you and your customers. At this time, they will need to perform telephone activation. Or, in the future, you can recreate your images and image the IBM load, not your own custom load, and SLP should remain intact.

Matt Davis [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: Using the IBM load isn't what is best for me, creating a custom image is what is ideal for most in this industry. Is that my only option? Also, like I said when I first login it doesn't work but after rebooting I am able to login with no problem.
A: Your best bet, to avoid issues with product activation, is to image the IBM load. If you want to create your own load and then have the customers enter their own unique product key and activate that key the machines should fail internet activation. They should be able to log-in correctly but when they try to activate the product key on the COA label it should fail internet activation and they will need to use the telephone to call the activation call center.

Bret [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: What I still don't understand, is that if a name brand box had a license - but is missing the external documentation, then to buy another copy is double billing for the same machine. I can understand the white boxes - but not a name brand.
A: In order to legally resell the box with Windows XP that's already installed on it, you need to have the media, license agreement, and COA. If you don't have all of those materials to give to the customer then you cannot sell a machine with the OS that is currently installed on it.

Matt Davis [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: Once in audit mode of an SLP image can we run sysprep -factory or sysprep -reseal? Is there any way to initiate oobe or mini-setup without destroying SLP?
A: Yes, as long as sysprep -factory and/or sysprep -reseal have been run fewer than 3 times you can run sysprep -reseal again and keep SLP in place. Sysprep has a hard-coded limit of being run 3x to reset the product activation countdown and this has not changes with the changes being discussed today.

Matt Davis [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: Ok so you are saying they should be able to log-in correctly but when they try to activate via internet it should fail. In my case I click "remind me later" it logs me off. I restart the machine and can login fine (using my image which worked before 2/28)
A: Without seeing your image I cannot comment specifically. But, yes, what's likely happening is that the machine doesn't believe the image was activated in time and logs you off. After logging back in it's possible that SLP kicks-in and now it is fine. Be cautious that it may not continue to work in this manner in the future and/or if you recreate your image.

Matt Davis [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: Alright as long as the SLP kicked in and this particular machine will not have a problem in the future than I am fine.
A: As I said, without seeing your specific image, I'm not sure exactly what has happened. But, in all likelyhood it is...

Bret [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: If you know what license numbers, and serial number of the machine, then if you have a COA but not the documentation, then why wouldn't you have a procedure to "re-issue" for a fee the original COA docs? According to your license agreement, 1 mach- 1lic
A: Providing these pieces seperately would defeat the work we are trying to do around anti-piracy. The issue right now is stand-alone COA's being used to activate machines with illegal software. If we offer stand-alone license agreements then you are exchanging one problem for another.

Bret [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Please use the "submit as question" button when posting questions to make sure they get into the que.

Matt Davis [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: Any chance the dell/hp SLP imges that are on the systems have a different rule. As soon as we run either of those commands, it kills the activationa and we are then prompted to activate again
A: If Dell/HP has run sysprep -factory and/or sysprep -reseal more than a combined 3 times you will not be able to image their load, unforunately. Sysprep has a hard-coded limit of 3 times that it can be used to reset the countdown for product activation and both the -reseal and -factory flags do this. So, if this happens, you should probably create a new image but when you create the new image SLP will not be in place any longer as you are not using Dell/HP's unique SLP identifying information. And your customers will need to perform telephone activation.

Bret [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: We are a gold member and have our own bios brand how will this change affect us?
A: I don't know the name of your company so I can't really say.

Bret [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: Computer Technology Link is a gold member and have our own bios brand how will this change affect us?
A: No you shouldn't be affected by this.

Bret [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Alright that's all the time we have for today. Thank you for participating in this live chat on product activiation. We hope you found it informative.

Sherri (Expert):
Thanks for joining us today! I'm signing off. Have a great Monday and keep in touch with us!

Matt Davis [MSFT] (Expert):
Thanks for joining us today! Take Care and hope we can chat again. Also, please make sure to sign-up for the upcoming x64 webcast!

Bret [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Thanks for coming everyone!

Matt Davis [MSFT] (Expert):
PLEASE REGISTER TODAY for the online launch event of Microsoft Windows 64-bit Live Webcast with Bill Gates April 25, 2005 10:00am PST (18:00 GMT) on the Microsoft OEM System Builder web site! Register at http://oem.microsoft.com/buildw64webcast