System Builder Chat: MCE for the SB (February 9, 2005)

Please note:Portions of this transcript have been edited for clarity

Introduction

Bret [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Welcome to today’s chat. Our topic today is…System Builder Chat: MCE for the SB.

Victor aka BOB (Expert):
Hello and thank you for joining us today. My name is Victor Mux [MSFT]. I'm a member of team BOB :)

Start of Chat

Tracy - MSFT (Expert):
Q: Is it true that you are going to change the windows download centre to only be able to download with a legit licence key. If so Brilliant idea
A: The answer is sort of. We will continue to make security downloads available via the download center as well as via Automatic update. However, the COOL downloads will be "genuine" and will only be available to people who have a legitimate product key. Lot's of cool offers....go to download center and www.microsoft.com/genuine to see other offers.

Tracy - MSFT (Expert):
Q: Will Halo for PC be available in any form of Volume Licensing?
A: Don't belive so.

Bret [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Hello All, This is Bret from the System Builder Tech Team [aka BOB]. Welcome!

Tracy - MSFT (Expert):
Q: will there be more offers to come with the genuine windows stuff
A: Lot's! There are offers like Photostory 3 and Windows Media Center 10, but also discounts on other services for small businesses. You'll continue to see more and more added.

Sherri (Expert):
Hello everyone! This is Sherri and I'm ready to help you with your questions!

Tracy - MSFT (Expert):
Q: How do we recieve T-shirt if we are in the UK?
A: I'll have to find out if the offer was good outside U.S.

Tracy - MSFT (Expert):
Q: Will this chat log be posted anywhere? I will not be able to stay for the entire time.
A: Yes, you will be able to find in on the Technet transcript site.

Tracy - MSFT (Expert):
Q: Currently you have MSDNAA available for students as a way of offering reduced cost software for students, so are there any plans in the pipeline for pushing MSDNAA (or equivalent) to students of younger age than university?
A: I don't know the answer to that! Suggest sending email to MSDN?

Tracy - MSFT (Expert):
Q: Is there anything I must fill out to receive the free Genuine Windows Licensing Kit including the sought after Genuine Windows t-shirt :)?
A: Yes. When you registered for the website, you were asked for your contact information. If you filled that out, then you will receive the kit (and the t-shirt) in about six weeks!

SteveWin [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: Is it true that you are going to change the windows download centre to only be able to download with a legit licence key. If so Brilliant idea
A: I think we answered this...right?

Annk (Expert):
Q: How do you tell if other Microsoft Products are legit beside the hologram. eg. Office 2003
A: Check out www.howtotell.com and there you'll find info on how to tell if you're legit for various products.

Sherri (Expert):
Q: How do you tell if other Microsoft Products are legit beside the hologram. eg. Office 2003
A: You can refer to www.microsoft.com/howtotell to see other anti piracy technologies, including Edge to Edge holograms, Certificates of Authenticity (CIAs) and the like. Now with Windows Genuine Advantage, customers will have the opportunity to validate whether or not their Windows XP is authentic.

Tracy - MSFT (Expert):
Q: if the os is activated will they client have to go through all of these things to get downloads?
A: Once the product ID has been determined to be genuine, the client will not have to go through it every time they go to the download center.

SteveWin [aka BOB] (Moderator):
rharper: Is anyone really using ME :)

Tracy - MSFT (Expert):
Q: Win XP MCE is based off XP Pro right?
A: That is correct. It's a superset of XP Pro.

Bret [aka BOB] (Moderator):
No skips, Neo... it just takes longer to answer some than others.

Tracy - MSFT (Expert):
Q: I signed in with my passport will the contact information be pulled of that ?
A: To register for the webcast, you didn't need a passport account. When you registered, it should have asked you for your contact information.

Victor aka BOB (Expert):
Q: Thank you all for having this web cast and Chat. I wanted to let you know that you have done well and I look forward to the next ones in the future. :o)
A: Stay tuned for future webcasts at http://www.msreadiness.com/webcast/webcasts.asp#SystemBuilders

Tracy - MSFT (Expert):
Q: What part, if any, will OEM Sys Builder Licensing play a part in the Licensing Compentency?
A: That's a really good question Dan, and I'm unsure of the answer. However, we will have an OEM System Builder Competency launching this fall. Today, you can join a Partner Engagement Program called Genuine Desktop Campaign for System Builders selling into Small Business space, take a licensing training, and receive all kinds of goodies. You can find out more by going to www.microsoft.com/oem.

Victor aka BOB (Expert):
Q: If the OEM Licence follows the hardware at what point during upgrades/repairs is it no longer valid?
A: If a motherboard is damaged and replaced then the license can remain on the system. If the motherboard is changed as an upgrade then a new OS has to be sold to them.

Sherri (Expert):
Q: Is the activation process going to differ in any way, in future versions of windows?
A: We continually look to how to improve the customer experience around activation. As well, we look to ways to help customers determine whether or not they have genuine Microsoft software, and we will be making some changes to activation at the end of February that will result in more customers finding out that they may have been duped.

Tracy - MSFT (Expert):
Q: what will happen with windows XP activations if support for XP ever ends??
A: Not sure about your question. Activation is required to receive downloads and special offers (other than security downloads).

SteveWin [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: How come every time I re-install XP I have to wait on hold for hours to get it activated if there was supposed to be no "manual" effort required to verify that your copy is legit?
A: Hours? For authentication? It is more likely an issue with multiple reloads. Best bet is to call the 800 number and spend the 5 minutes with them instead..

Victor aka BOB (Expert):
Q: Question: System Builders are not allow to offer a recovery solution on a CD. But can we offer it if we use a third party product like ghost?
A: No. This is a violation of the OEM license agreement. You can only provide the end user a hard disk recovery solution.

SteveWin [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: Is there any plans on changing the way activation in xp works or will this always stay the same
A: No plans to change that I know of. Do you have suggestions? If so, send an e-mail to MSWISH@microsoft.com.

Tracy - MSFT (Expert):
Q: a lot of copiesdon't have coa's like the full retail packages or the nfr copies l use on my machines
A: If it's OEM software, it is not genuine unless it includes: 1) COA, 2) Media, and 3) documentation. The full retail product or NFR are different. We're only talking about OEM software that is sold through distribution.

Bret [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Scotland, please resubmit your question and hit the "submit as question" button.

SteveWin [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: Are Microsoft able to disclose any of any statistics of the numbers of legitimate versus illegitimate copies of software?
A: 13 million in th eUS...46.5 million world wide

SteveWin [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: Is there any plans to create some sort of Corporate Activation pooling, in that business will be required to activate (no more VLKs) through an activation proxy of some sort.
A: Great idea. Send the suggestion to MSWISH@microsoft.com and it will get forward to the activation group.

Tracy - MSFT (Expert):
Q: Are there plans to implement Product Activation on ALL MS software in the future? VS, Office, OS's, Home/Entertainment division s/w?
A: I'm sure we will take a look at the learnings and impact that we gain from implementing this for Windows XP in the future. However, at this time, there are no plans to roll in other products into a "Genuine Advantage" type program.

Sherri (Expert):
Q: is there a way to report genuine systems & COA's that have been stolen to Microsoft so that the OS will become "frozen", in terms of updates?
A: You may report any suspected piracy incidents to piracy@microsoft.com. Distributing standalone COAs is now a criminal offense in the US, so Microsoft can now go after unscrupulous resellers who are trafficking in genuine components intended to dupe customers. At the end of February, customers whose computers have COAs on them that were stolen from the top 20 OEMs, will no longer be able to activate their PCs via the internet.

SteveWin [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: Is there a completely different set of agreements if I switch from single system builds to embedded server system builds
A: Yes. You would need to have agreement with the Microsoft Embedded team.

Victor aka BOB (Expert):
Q: What happens if a customer decides to upgrade a case after COA is applied to the case?
A: So long as the customer retains the COA he can upgrade the case. Just make sure they keep it.

Annk (Expert):
Q: Violation of the OEM Agreement to provide CD-Based recovery solutions? I know of lots of manufacturers (Tiny, Time, Acer, Gateway) who do CD-Based recovery with OEM Software...
A: The "rules" with direct OEMs (those who have signed agreements with Microsoft) are different that those of system builders - that's why this recovery media rule is different.

Tracy - MSFT (Expert):
Q: we have reached the point of 4 years now of windows xp release. Lots of people have 4 year old systems which they want to upgrade. so your saying that when upgrading they must 'repurchase' xp again? xp is one of the most costly parts of a pc
A: If they purchased a full-packaged product with the original machine, then they can transfer the Windows license to a new machine. If we're talking about an OEM license, you can upgrade the hard drive, memory, basically everything OTHER than the mother board. If, however, they upgrade the motherboard as well, then yes, they would be required to purchase a new OEM license.

Victor aka BOB (Expert):
Q: Violation of the OEM Agreement to provide CD-Based recovery solutions? I know of lots of manufacturers (Tiny, Time, Acer, Gateway) who do CD-Based recovery with OEM Software...
A: They have a different license agreement with Microsoft. Here is a good document explaining the details. http://oem.microsoft.com/script/contentpage.aspx?pageid=516572

SteveWin [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: SteveWin, I did call the 1-800 number to get it activated and waited hours on hold. I went through a series of questions with a gentleman from India and eventually got it activated. Now I can't patch the system. This is a student copy...?
A: The long wait is not normal and I cannot explain what happened. Shouldn't matter that it was a student copy. Sorry for the bad experience.

Tracy - MSFT (Expert):
Q: Ouch. those stats are pretty high... Are they unlicensed version numbers or totals? Very high!
A: Yes, and it makes it very difficult for honest resellers to compete.

SteveWin [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: I am an ISV, what advice can you give me for implementing licenses to my .NET applications? Also, What are your thoughts on XrML?
A: Gosh, I wish I could help you out. You may want to ping the newsgrups over on MSDN to get that answered. Sorry.

Tracy - MSFT (Expert):
Q: If you have your VLK stolen and u have several hundred machines out on site and microsost locks that key, what happens in the future to those legit machines as regars updates etc. Is there a way to change the keys on all machine out on the different sites
A: We're not talking about a volume license key, we're talking about the product ID that is found on the COA sticker. If you loose your VLK, you can get it again from the reseller or, I believe, from calling Microsoft for help.

SteveWin [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: I notice Microsoft recently acquired Sybari, can you disclose any information about possible plans for OEM Anti-Virus solutions?
A: Nope. But I can say MSFT is always looking at ways to make our products more secure. Sorry. :)

Tracy - MSFT (Expert):
Q: OK.... ANOTHER "SENIOR MOMENT" ... he,,he,,, - The link for the OPK info. please.
A: The OPK software is shipped with 3 packs via authorized distribution or via the Microsoft Action Pack.

Sherri (Expert):
Q: true, but we are also talking about working on machines for clients that might not have coa's
A: Yes, that is a huge problem and you'd be doing the customer a great service to let them know that their OS is at high risk of not being compliant. Some system builders even refuse to work on systems without legitimate software, as they do not want to be responsible for viruses, bugs, etc. that could be associated with non-genuine. That's asking a lot of you, but it's a thought. They will need a product key to activate, and if they don't have one, they won't be able to. On the positive side, with Windows Genuine Advantage, they will not be able to get downloads or qualify for great discounts and special offers. :D

SteveWin [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: Is Product Activation going to be present in Longhorn? Will it be the existing format, ala XP and 2k3, or will it be a new improved (and hack-proof ;) version?)
A: Yes it will be in Longhorn, and I imagine it will be improved. We will just have to see though, right? :)

Annk (Expert):
Q: Since you said that I can only provided my customers with a Hard drive base recovery solution, are there any programs that you recomend for me to use? or does Microsoft have plans to provide it?
A: If you are preinstalling genuine WIndows software - Microsoft OEM system builder software comes with a hologram CD that contains the Windows software that can be used as recovery media. More info is at http://oem.microsoft.com/script/contentpage.aspx?pageid=516572 .

Tracy - MSFT (Expert):
Q: Aah ... big OEMs get much more lax requirements than the little guys.... hmmm :S - why can't smaller OEMs do SLP installs either?!
A: Yes, that's true, however it's also true that they spend millions of dollars and have teams of people working to meet all the legal requirements that Microsoft puts around delivering the OS direct and using SLP.

Victor aka BOB (Expert):
Q: we have an OEM from Tiny computers and a serial number on the case, however we dont have a disk - what happens here?
A: I suggest that you contact them and request the CD. If you feel like they are not legitimate you can email piracy@microsoft.com to verify the sale.

Bret [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: people seem to be using their operating systems longer now. after all, there are still a lot of people using 98, or businesses using NT. instead of releasing a new OS every few years, wouldnt it be better to go 'modular' with new addition/addons instead?..
A: A more modular design is part of the methodology for future OS's but to what extent we can't really say at the moment.

SteveWin [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: people seem to be using their operating systems longer now. after all, there are still a lot of people using 98, or businesses using NT. instead of releasing a new OS every few years, wouldnt it be better to go 'modular' with new addition/addons instead?..
A: We are looking at all sorts of things like this with the planning of future OSs.

Victor aka BOB (Expert):
Q: How licencing apply to used PC (buy out from leasing company)? They don't have complete set of media and documentation, but have COA.
A: Check out http://oem.microsoft.com/script/ContentPage.aspx?pageid=552862 for used PC sales.

Annk (Expert):
Q: How licencing apply to used PC (buy out from leasing company)? They don't have complete set of media and documentation, but have COA.
A: See http://oem.microsoft.com/used_refurbpc for info on this topic.

Bret [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Ed that's a great topic to post on our discussion board at http://www.microsoft.com/technet/community/newsgroups/dgbrowser/en-us/default.mspx?dg=microsoft.public.systembuilder&lang=en&cr=US

SteveWin [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: do you know if longhorn will feature any recovery features similar to winternals erd recovery tools, or basically anything that will allow you to control windows 'outwith' the installation. ie, the use of live cd, or extra recovery console features?
A: Unfortunately, we cannot speak to future products that do not have their feature sets locked down yet. Stay tuned for furure webcasts and chats to discuss this type of stuff.

SteveWin [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: if the windows licence covers one machine per licence, then what if the individual runs virtual pc, or vmware and wants to install that product within the virtual software. how does this work?
A: Each Virtual machine must also be properly licensed. So, one physical machine running 2 virtual OSs would need a total of 3 licenses. Of course, why would you want to use VMWare??? :)

SteveWin [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: Can Microsoft Office product cd's have the same key code if they are not volume licensed.
A: No. You may want to send an e-mail to piracy@microsoft.com if you have this going on.

Victor aka BOB (Expert):
Q: can somone translate "hard drive recovery solution" into geek please? Does that mean a seperate partition with the i386 files to re-install from?
A: Hard disk recovery solution is a solution that uses the existing hard drive by creating a special partition and using an embedded custom application to restore. The system builder still needs to provide the COA, Original CD, EULA, and Manual.

SteveWin [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: Is there any plans to offer a server extension to a business to activate VL copies on the netowrk then information sent to microsoft
A: Not to my knowledge.

Annk (Expert):
Q: can somone translate "hard drive recovery solution" into geek please? Does that mean a seperate partition with the i386 files to re-install from?
A: Please see http://oem.microsoft.com/static/worldwide/file/HD_Recovery_Solutions_for_SBs.doc for more info on hard-disk based recovery solutions. THanks!

SteveWin [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: Best of Breed :P
A: Thanks?

Annk (Expert):
Q: How long after someone is reported is MS going to take to try and stop them? Is the program only concentrating on large companies? I reported same guy three or four times and last time it was an invalid Vol. Lic. which I had my customer talk to rulegit.
A: Thank you very much for reporting this person! Please know that we take every report very seriously and no - we don't always go after the large companies. These investigations often take a long time to come to fruition - and we unfortunately can't give you details on what we're doing with them for legal reasons. Thanks and please know we appreciate these leads!

Sherri (Expert):
Q: How long after someone is reported is MS going to take to try and stop them? Is the program only concentrating on large companies? I reported same guy three or four times and last time it was an invalid Vol. Lic. which I had my customer talk to rulegit.
A: We follow up on all leads that are submitted either to piracy@microsoft.com, or through other channels. Depending on the particular type of infraction, we might need to take a series of steps (such as Cease & Desist letters, test purchases, etc.) before a legal suit can actually be filed. We do take action right away, but it might not be visible externally because of legal practices. We are an "equal opportunity" enforcer, so any size will be followed up on. Unfortunately, unscrupulous resellers are moving targets and we need to not only be aware of them, but catch up with them and get evidence to take forward. Thank you for your diligence reporting them, and I would just ask that you please keep it up so that we can catch them!

Victor aka BOB (Expert):
Q: keeping a disk loaded with the correct image for your clients and recloning their drives from it is legal but a cd recovery disk is not?
A: correct. As a system builder you can use SYSPREP to build an image and use a 3rd party application to deploy it to the systems you build. System builders are prohibited from creating recovery solutions for Windows that are stored on removable media, as this is a violation of the Microsoft OEM System Builder License.

SteveWin [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: Whats going to be after Longhorn?
A: It's TAIL...:)

SteveWin [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: Whats going to be after Longhorn?
A: We cannot discuss future products...sorry

SteveWin [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: SteveWin... someone asked what BOB meant in ur name, i was assuming it was Best of Breed :P... but it was not meant for a question, sorry LoL :$
A: No prob. Builders of Boxes if Bret didn't already tell you. :) It was actually just a fun name that was a heck of a lot better than US System Builder Partner Technology Team!!!

SteveWin [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: Does Wndows XP Home Edition SP2 have hidden Features or Easter Eggs?
A: Yes.

SteveWin [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: Does Wndows XP Home Edition SP2 have hidden Features or Easter Eggs?
A: Stay on topic of licensing.

Sherri (Expert):
Q: I understand that you guys are US based, but in the UK we have MSDNAA for ensuring that students have access to software (such as XP, and all of the dev tools) for free, but in a legitimate way. Is there anything similar in the US?
A: Yes, MSDNAA is also available in the US. The intent of MSDNAA is to provide students access to our technology while they are in a learning environment. As long as they are enrolled in school, in a department that is specifically focusing on teaching IT related subjects, the student may use the software. The academic institution pays for the MSDNAA subscription, and actively enrolled students are qualified to use it under the terms of the agreement (so it's not exactly "free", but the student doesn't have to pay anything extra).

SteveWin [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: i like the idea of palladium. maybe thats the way it will go.
A: Could be...lots of public resistance though.

SteveWin [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: Is Windows Longhorn going to have alot of Critical updates or Service Packs again?
A: Just like all OSs

SteveWin [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: I understand that you guys are US based, but in the UK we have MSDNAA for ensuring that students have access to software (such as XP, and all of the dev tools) for free, but in a legitimate way. Is there anything similar in the US?
A: I think we answered this. If not, let us know.

Victor aka BOB (Expert):
Q: could you tell me if i will recieve the pack ?
A: What pack are you talking about? :-S

SteveWin [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: could you tell me if i will recieve the pack ?
A: If you provided your address and contact info when you registered for the webcast , then yes.

SteveWin [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: People/custs/etc. tell me: "Too exp. to upgrde to XP. I have dsktp+ laptp- don't use both at once. MS wants around $200 (tax, ship too) just to upgrade 2 comps. If it was $50 each, OK." Those people buy illegal stuff. Lower $, less illegal probs????
A: It becomes a matter of showing value of security and performance. We do understand where you are coming from.

SteveWin [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: I know this is quite out of topic, but remember when Bill Gate's was having a live audience show and was showing people about the Windows Media Center, and it kept crashing and people were laughing etc. just wondered did anyone get fired? LoL
A: I don't know for sure, but nw that you mention it, I haven't seen any of the techs around camus in awile!!! :)

SteveWin [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: it never asked me for address
A: Send an e-mail to BOBTalk@microsoft.com with your contact info and we will see what we can do.

SteveWin [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: is there any plans for activation on mobile platforms
A: Not to my knowledge.

SteveWin [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: does that mean you're hiring? =)
A: :)

Annk (Expert):
Q: Can you go into why it is a violation to provide such a valued service to our customers when the likes of HP and DELL have no such stipulation. Why is 1000 pc's any differetn then 10?
A: We are working to make a better solution for system builders. In reality, this is a very complicated subject with lots of issues (high piracy in the system builder channel, CD hologram media is already a part of the genuine system builder packaing, etc) and we understand your frustration. We are working on this.

SteveWin [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: Do you guys feel that using Prod. Activation has helpe to reduce the %age of illegal copies of XP and 2003 being used compared to the same relative %age of windows 98, and ME?
A: Yes...without a doubt. More on the casual side than the organized crime rings.

SteveWin [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: What methods will Longhorn be incorporating to prevent piracy from the start if any? Are you going to blacklist users from using illicit serial numbers?
A: UInfortunately we cannot discuss products whose feature sets have not been locked down yet. :(

SteveWin [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: Ok, a slight rephrase on the Q.. I asked if "you guys FELT" it reduced the %age... how about what do the figures say? :)
A: Dang...I thought I answered it well the first time. Yes, we FEEL that activation has definitely helped reduce numbers of non-genuine software. Is that better? :)

Sherri (Expert):
Q: Do you guys feel that using Prod. Activation has helpe to reduce the %age of illegal copies of XP and 2003 being used compared to the same relative %age of windows 98, and ME?
A: Product Activation has been successful at deterring one of the more common types of piracy which is called casual copying, and it's only targeting customers with newer OS such as XP. The older versions you mention are much more broadly pirated, so the percentage would be lower.

SteveWin [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: doesprod activation really work, especiallysince they published cracks the week before prod launches or is it just to punish small businesses?
A: No punishment at all...just meant to help discourage cheating. No different than any number of other things. Are laws meant to punish the common citizen because crooks have figured out ways to break the laws?

SteveWin [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: What was the link to OPK tools. I need a tutorial on it
A: oem.microsoft.com/opk

SteveWin [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: hehe Thanks Steve and Sherri. Good to know it's working!
A: :D

Bret [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Hey Neo, do me a favor and take that discussion to http://www.microsoft.com/technet/community/newsgroups/dgbrowser/en-us/default.mspx?dg=microsoft.public.systembuilder&lang=en&cr=US. I'd love to talk about it with you.

SteveWin [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: ok so you work for microsoft and you go visit uncle fred in tacoma. you need to check emails and ask to borrow his pc. when on it you notice he's running an unlicenced copy of xp. what do you do?
A: Get him legit.

Victor aka BOB (Expert):
Q: is this OPk kit [sans the shirt] the same kit that comes with every 3 pack of OEM XPs?
A: Yes

Bret [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Thank you for joining us today on a Microsoft Community Chat to talk about Licencing for System Builders.
If you would like further information on this topic please visit the following URL(s): http://oem.microsoft.com/licensing.
We hope you join us for our next chat on February 15 Office Hours with the US System Builder Team.

SteveWin [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: how do i register to get my pack with tshirt
A: If you registered for the webcast with your contact info, you will get it in 4-6 weeks. IF you didn't register properly for the webcast, send an e-mail to BOBTalk@microsoft.com and we will see what we can do.

Victor aka BOB (Expert):
Q: this was both a great chat and webinar, so thanks :D
A: Thanks for comming. :)

SteveWin [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: Why do Microsoft bother with this new genuine program that gives them cool stuff that illegal copies cant? Because i gaurentee the tools will be cracked so that illegal copied users can use them.... what do you think?
A: Perhaps...it is the circle of software life...we build, they break, we build again...Just becuase you know how to break the law doesn't make you right...:)

SteveWin [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: what reduced rate are you talking about scotland?
A: ?

Victor aka BOB (Expert):
Q: oops didnt finish..... ' it makes me feel bad :(... i use legit software from Microsoft
A: Thanks

Victor aka BOB (Expert):
Q: Dont use the word 'you
A: ok

SteveWin [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: Dont use the word 'you
A: Wasn't meant to YOU personally...speaking very generally...sorry about the misunderstanding.

SteveWin [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Q: How would i possibly go about getting a career with Microsoft?
A: Best way is knowing someone personnally. Get involved with your local district and meet people. Also, keep applying at www.microsoft.com/jobs.

Bret [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Thanks everybody for hanging out with us. Remember to come visit us at our discussion forum at http://www.microsoft.com/technet/community/newsgroups/dgbrowser/en-us/default.mspx?dg=microsoft.public.systembuilder&lang=en&cr=US. Watch for our next webcast and chat. Until then, Elvis has left the building.

Victor aka BOB (Expert):
Thanks for joining us today! Great chat. Please come again.

SteveWin [aka BOB] (Moderator):
Bye yall